i have alot of boost stack. with my 3.25 i have 13.5-14lbs max. which as it seems by reading around is high for 1.9 rockers. my goal is to dip into 12.9 which is very close a few tenths. i want to free up my manifolds but don't want to spend another grand just to get a few more tenths. i was looking at the s&s headers but it seems that only gt's have them. but i figure they have got to be better then ported manifolds and manifolds claim to drop 2 tenths. would s&s headers work well on a gtp or are they going to still restrict severly. oh yeah and when zzp comes out with the boost controller i plan on using that to push a little more boost out. but my goal is only to drop 3-5 tenths should i save for the expensive stuff or will s&s work.
which headers?
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Togs is the best way to go......Their ALOT nicer then SLP or S&S headers. Much better air flow. As far as the mods you have, how much kr are ya running? 14-15 psi is a ton of boost for no headers....I'm running 8-10 psi for boost with no headers. And that is still pushing it. I see 5-6 degrees of KR. I know you have rockers but i would say check the KR levels before you blow the motor. And as far as headers, Togs all the way baby! best quality and best sound.
i am fine with knock. i get no knock at all at my state. i have the caspers knock gauge and it has never lit up yet. i don't have the fact that i use autolight 103's in my sign. i am not looking to go super fast i just want to free up the manifolds a little to get rid of the boost stacking i just don't see the use in spending almost a grand on headers when any other car it would be a third of that. plus i like the stock look for obvious reasons and a shinny polished header is pretty easy to see.
I would be very leary of completley depending on a knock guage. You should still scan from time to time. If it NEVER lights up it may not be working.... As for headers go TOGS or you will regret it eventually. SLP's have had seriouse coating problems as well as the joints they use are a PITA to ever get apart again. You can also get the TOG's for not alot more than the slp's with the install kit. Thier warranty is also the best!
G
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·TOGS can also come with a matte finish.
SLP Headers
I have the SLP Headers and am starting to regret it... They give a nice HP boost, but leak from the flex joint
. Anyone else having this problem? I wrapped that section but still can hear it clearly. I REALY want to get rid of that ticking noise and SLP was no help... they said it was normal. Anyone have any suggestions?
I have the SLP Headers and am starting to regret it... They give a nice HP boost, but leak from the flex joint
. Anyone else having this problem? I wrapped that section but still can hear it clearly. I REALY want to get rid of that ticking noise and SLP was no help... they said it was normal. Anyone have any suggestions?No Gaskets...
On the SLP, the only gaskets are the gaskets that are between the headers and the engine block. The rest are pipe in pipe, like a borla exhaust system. At first, the leaks were coming from these pipes where they met, but we have fixed these, but it still ticks loudly. SLP says it is the flex that makes the noise... Has anyone had this section replaced or has been able to get this to the point where it is barely heard?
On the SLP, the only gaskets are the gaskets that are between the headers and the engine block. The rest are pipe in pipe, like a borla exhaust system. At first, the leaks were coming from these pipes where they met, but we have fixed these, but it still ticks loudly. SLP says it is the flex that makes the noise... Has anyone had this section replaced or has been able to get this to the point where it is barely heard?
i have the SLP's and like them alot. Thay are actually stainless rather than mild steel like the TOGs so if you DO have any problems with the coating, it wont do anything but surface oxidation rather than through and through rust. The coating problems only occurred in the first run of headers and has been corrected. My headers have a few rough spots in the coating but no rusting. As far as the ticking, wrapping the flex kills 90% of the noise. They preform just as well as the TOGs, and anyone who contests that is just plain wrong, primaries are the same size, the crossover is proportionally balanced with the collector, and the collector itself is the same size. The fastest non-IC car runs them, they dont seem to be hurting his performance. Plus, if your smart, theyre well over $100 cheaper than TOGs. I paid just under $600 INSTALLED for mine, i installed them, got a "race pipe" made for $6.00, yes only six dollars, and used clamps from NAPA to put it all together.
TOG's are well worth it. Thier warranty plainly beats slp's. Also if you ever need to remove them you'll be better off. SLP ripped off tog's design so why wouldn't it be good? The difference being TOG uses a larger crossover. The TOG's will never have a rust issue because they actually warranty thier coatings unlike slp. Not to mention the fact thier coatings work. As for the coating being fixed I have seen two sets of NEWER slp's that still have the problem. Furthermore if the coating goes you loose the thermal protection. Also you need to consider TOG's use much beefier materials than slp.
FastGS88 said:
Amen! Most people don't understand this very important point. The SLP headers are 409 STAINLESS STEEL, which DO NOT NEED TO BE COATED. TOGs are MILD STEEL and MUST be coated; otherwise they will rust-out within 1 year if you live in a winter-salt state.
I will NEVER choose any exhaust component that is made from mild-steel. Waste of $$, coated or not. All it takes is 1 scratch on the coating, and those headers are toast..... and I am willing to bet that TOGs will not warranty their headers against corrosion (rust-thru).
They will warranty the headers. TOG has a NO FAULT lifetime warranty. A guy on club gp misinstaled his, ran NO exhuast hangers, except for the ones at the muffs and no flex IIRC and et the system hang from his headers. Guess what they finaaly cracked. TOG knew what happend and replaced them anyway. Call SLP talkt o thier customer service. Then call John at TOG see who treats you better. And BTW it would take more than a scratch to distroy the coating enough to cause the metal to rust. The ceramic is bonded into the outer layers of the metal and will still provide protection when scratched.
Bottom line go to club gp and look at the number of complaints between slp and tog. I'll BET YOU that slp's comlpaints outnumber tog 10 to 1.
Bottom line go to club gp and look at the number of complaints between slp and tog. I'll BET YOU that slp's comlpaints outnumber tog 10 to 1.
Ok, then why don't you try this. Scratch your headers with a nail, and then tell us how they look in 1 year.spd98 said:
"bonded to the outer layers..." ROTFL! Dude, coating is coating; they don't have any sort of space-age intermolecular fusion with the mild-steel. They WILL rust if scratched.
TOGs have excellent quality & craftsmanship; its just a shame they chose to use cheap mild-steel instead of going the professional route and using 304SS. But, they're also catering to the market - the uninformed general public (ie, clubgp) thinks that a coated part is better than a non-coated part for corrosion protection...
FYI, read their 'warranty' statement. Nowhere in there does it state rust/corrosion is covered. Only defects in materials and workmanship.
The togs are hot dipped meaning there is some change to outer coating of the metal just like the black manganes phosohate coating found on alot of mil spec hardwear. There are changes chemically to the surface of the metal in many coating processes. Which is also why I suspect people have trouble with the slp's developing rust spots very quickly when the coating fails. I suspect the crome layers in the outer layers of tube metal may actually be effected by the pickling process they use to clean the headers prior to coating. Pickling actually can eat the crome from the outer layers of the tube and thus cause rust to appear faster. While it's only surface rust it's rust none the less. This can also lead to an oxide layer forming which can shear away from the tube thus taking more of the coating with it. Not saying thats a fact but I have had a couple of years experience on various steel coating problems. The slp's use 409 btw so by your standards they aren't professional either. Which is NOT as high of crome content as 309 but is also more resistant to thermal fatigue. Furthermore my togs do have a few signifigant scratches on them (they rode through a trans change and got a little beat up) and no rust to date. Call john and talk to him. Then try to talk to slp.
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33 Posts
i have a ? relating to the S&S headers. i have a NA monte carlo wand to either get new P&P manifolds or s&s headers.. which is the way to go? also i saw someoen mention something bout autotap and elimiating kr. how do u do that im clueless!
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