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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
some GREAT info!!

http://www.clubgp.com/newforum/tm.asp?m=1878071&p=1&tmode=1&smode=1

this is a link to some really great info on the walbro pump. it solves an issue the entire community has had for YEARS!! well worth the reading. A big thanks goes out to the guy (DK) who did all the research on this :)

anyone here have any thoughts on it.
 

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I thought this forum was non-company bashing. That thread specifically points out (DK's) thoughts on a certain company. I'm not saying its not good information because it is, but . . . All's im saying is i want this to follow the rules INTENSE has set.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
look when someone does something wether here on the forums or in real life they should be held accountable for their actions. it is this lack of accountability that is a major problem with people in general today. in DK's post he did NOT say anything untrue about INTENSE. he called them (scott) out on something he did that was not ethical. He denied there was a problem with the pump. when you look at the instructions that are/were on intenses site it is clear that he did not know how the pump worked. Now he is being held accountable for his actions, and rightly so.

frankly i was impressed that not only was my thread here not deleted, but was moved to a more appropriate forum.

accountability is what seperates us from the apes
 

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I'm going to make a few comments on this topic...

1) INTENSE wasn't the 'inventor' of this Walbro fuel pump.

2) This same pump has been around almost twenty years, and is marketed by Walbro to work in dozens of applications, many of them with similar sending unit assemblies to our design.

3) This same fuel pump was sold for W-body applications by several other retailers for many years before INTENSE even existed.

4) There are several hundred of these pumps in W-bodies in the field and to the best of our knowledge, most customers are very pleased with their performance. In fact, many of the Top 25 cars were running Walbro fuel pumps when their records were set:

http://www.3800tech.com/lists/fwdquarter.html

5) We have received complaints from time to time of these pumps not being able to suck the tank dry, and in nearly all of these cases, we found that the pump was not seated fully into the rubber sleeve, before the sleeve was reinserted back into the housing.

6) Ken's thread appears to reveal some scientific information that we were not aware of. We plan to work directly with Walbro and investigate this further in the future. And if we can learn more, the entire community will benefit.

7) We are thoroughly disgusted with all the personal attacks that are permitted and even seem to be encouraged on that other message forum. We don't understand why anyone would want to participate in or support that type of behavior in any way.

8)
in DK's post he did NOT say anything untrue about INTENSE. he called them (scott) out on something he did that was not ethical.
We didn't do anything unethical by reselling Walbro fuel pumps, and providing installation instructions that have worked fine on hundreds of cars. We're all here to learn as much as possible about these cars, and you can bet your ass that we'll all know far more in another year than we know today.

9)
frankly i was impressed that not only was my thread here not deleted, but was moved to a more appropriate forum.
That is standard operating procedure on this forum.
 

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I would just like to say "A.M.E.N." to what Scott said.

I guess I am in the heat of it on the other forum, however to me it appears that if you install parts correctly, double check your work, and ask questions if you have any...99% of the time things will come out as they should.

It is absolutely ludicrous on the part of some to think that Scott and company have innovated the Walbro pump and basically forced it on the community. After all, I saw it on alot sites at one time, and it is still offered by just about everyone, including those who choose to continue the unethical and biased claims against Intense and the installation procedure that they came up with.

I installed this pump myself, with little instruction, and didn't use Intense's instructions. I have no problem getting the tank level below the E on my gauge. Guess I was lucky.

The other site has turned into an absolute joke. It is the same attacks over and over, by the same people, with the same complaints...and all from the same "camp"

LONG AND SHORT OF IT....if you can't install something and verify it's operational values, then don't do it, or ask questions, or have someone who is competent install it.
 

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Scott,
Forget about it. We know its nothing but an attempt to try and discredit the best 3800 vendor out there. Jealousy rears its ugly head all too often :eek:
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 · (Edited)
the problem is the pump could not possilby work correctly in any tank. just because someone doesn't know that it is not working at full capacity in no way means that it isn't.

you also posted instructions that had parts completely mislabeled. if you are in such close communication with walbro i am sure they would have told you what the valve on the top of the pump really was.

Steve, the instructions were WRONG so following them wouldn't fix it. you could memorise them, have them tatooes onto a limb and they would still NEVER cause the pump to function correctly. they simply do not fit the charecteristics of the pump.

no one is claiming walbro is a bad company or a bad pump, but it was not properly suited for our application. so don't act like we are trying to villify walbro.

all this is the TRUTH. you can say we are bashing or whatever you want to sustain your particular views on who is right, but we did the research.


"if you can't install something and verify it's operational values, then don't do it, or ask questions, or have someone who is competent install it" -Steve

i can't see how you don't think that applies to marketing an item.
 

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I've found that even with the stock pump that I can go beyond E for 40 miles or so and still not put 15 gallons in on a fill up (17 gal tank). I'm guessing that these 100's of people who think their Walbro pump is working like a stock one aren't actually ever below 2 gal in the tank. Has anyone ever run their tank dry with a Walbro installed? Scott?
 

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i have very well tried to run mine down dry but i havent cause well i arived at the track. My fuel level was well below E and my DIC even said i had like 3 miles left of driving. So i would assume my tank is pretty empty. I did not however open up my tank to confirm this. Maybe that is what needs to be done?
 

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Without looking into the tank I would have no idea about if the stock sucked the tank dry -vs- the Walbro. I had the Walbro in the car for the last few month of the 99's life and had taken it to the track multiple times after the install. I truthfully can say that I was able to run the low levels of fuel with it as I did without it (below E). Maybe we (home install) were able to get the pump seated farther down as Scott mentioned, maybe I was lucky, I can't say for sure. I know I always heard that you would run out before you would with stock...thing is I have run out of gas with both and they seem (as far as the needle was concerned) to run out at the same place.

The post was very educational and opens an oppurtunity for all of us to tweak our set-up's possibly. Rick, not sure why you thought it would get deleted....was that what you were looking for? The disappointing part of this is that you don't contribute to any of the other posts on here, but then bring this here. Kinda make me think you intentions was not to 'educate' folks, but rather to see if you could start something here. Could you see where this might happen? ;)

I thank you for the link, as it was very informative! I invite you to contribute and be active in some other threads here. This forum is about making the community stronger and sharing info., I hope that you share that goal.
 

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How large is the tank on the GP? I know mine is 16.6 gal per the documentation, and I've never been able to put in more than 15 on a fill up (never ran out of gas). How much were you able to put in on the fill ups after you sucked them dry, Walbro vs Stock?
 

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Rickmgtp said:
the problem is the pump could not possilby work correctly in any tank. just because someone doesn't know that it is not working at full capacity in no way means that it isn't.

you also posted instructions that had parts completely mislabeled. if you are in such close communication with walbro i am sure they would have told you what the valve on the top of the pump really was.

Steve, the instructions were WRONG so following them wouldn't fix it. you could memorise them, have them tatooes onto a limb and they would still NEVER cause the pump to function correctly. they simply do not fit the charecteristics of the pump.

no one is claiming walbro is a bad company or a bad pump, but it was not properly suited for our application. so don't act like we are trying to villify walbro.

all this is the TRUTH. you can say we are bashing or whatever you want to sustain your particular views on who is right, but we did the research.


"if you can't install something and verify it's operational values, then don't do it, or ask questions, or have someone who is competent install it" -Steve

i can't see how you don't think that applies to marketing an item.
Again you are one of the ones who doesn't read thoroughly. If you had you'd realize that Walbro themselves sells this for ours and many other applications, not to mention that many many other auto parts places sell the same pump for the same application. I guess all those vendors are evil too. All information provided was done in good faith. Even the information provided by Walbro themselves on keeping more fuel in the tank.

Another major point is that the information provided by Ken hasn't even been verified yet. I'm not saying his info is wrong, but everyone just accepts it as gospel because he gave a good technical explaination and posted diagrams with parts labeled. I doubt anyone verified that he was correct on what he thinks those sections are. Again, I'm not saying he's wrong, in fact, I believe he's correct. I'm just saying people just believe whatever anyone with ZZP says as long as it sounds reasonable. Most of the people over on ClubGP don't have a mind of their own.
 

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I really don't think that this is "bashing" other companies or forums.

I think there are many valid points which we as a community can build off of. Honestly this right now is a game of he said she said. DK definately had very conclusive data that made total sense to all the problems everyone was having. Now its up to Walbro to remedy this problem. As far as other vendors selling this product its not entirely up to them to solve the instances with their clients if its a non-warrantied product. I also agree with the many things scott said in his statement.

I've noticed a lot lately not just on this forum, but on my clubs forum, and many others that peoples Alter Ego's get carried away. DK is right we all know it, if someone is questioning the labeling of parts on the diagram then they should have done the research, if someone is questioning the validity of the arguement then do the research. People assume to much when it comes to this motor/vehicle. I honestly don't care if anyone on this forum can do a complete rebuild in 1 day or 12 hours, or 5 minutes, what i do care about is the information/suggestions/advise/personal phone calls/ helping hands/ etc are address and administrated in a common courtesy that we all appreciate. This is the only reason i am even remotely car Savvy. This is also the only reason i enjoy being part of a club, and why i mention to people how fun it is, and how much you can learn for it.

I know i've side tracked a little bit, but the thought is what matters. INTENSE, ZZP, Thrasher, etc all the companies out there selling 3800 parts are a 3rd party vendor for Walbro, so, in the end - its their responsiblity to contact Walbro and notify them of the problem, and its Walbro problem to fix. If that fix occurs GREAT! if it doesn't well then we don't buy their part, or if we do we continue to bitch about it. I honestly think DK was not out of line, and everyones responses are well warranted, but in the end it boils down to the manufacture.

I've said a lot, i apologize for causing any head aches or a voilation of the forum rules, but i needed to say what i said. I appreciate everyones time in reading this.

Regards,
Brian Carlson

P.S. -- disregard my signature, my IC project has put my $$ else where, doubtful all that will happen now :mad:
 

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For what it's worth, when I fixed my Walbro (I was the original cause of the first problem with it not being seated properly :( ) I was able to run the tank to empty also. Never had a problem.
 

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Excell said:
For what it's worth, when I fixed my Walbro (I was the original cause of the first problem with it not being seated properly :( ) I was able to run the tank to empty also. Never had a problem.
How many gallons is a GP tank? And how much did you put in after you sucked it dry?
 
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