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Discussion Starter #1
I have been in and out of forums, TSBs, YouTube hacks and other DIY tutorials for almost a week and think I have a unique situation on my hands. Thought I'd throw it on here and let you guys chew on it for a while.

Background:
Bought my 98 Olds with the last of my tax refund about a month ago. Car was tip top inside and out (as far as I could tell) and paid cash on the spot and drove her home. After about two weeks of errands and a few highway trips, the car was great. One day the wife drives it and it overheats. She pulled over to let it cool and called me up on the cell. I arrive shortly after with fresh water and we drove it back to the house. Put the water hose in the radiator and its almost completely empty. After filling, I take it on a test run. Everything seems good, so i punch it to hit the exit and come home and BAMM!! Hydrolock! Tear it down and found out about the UIM/LIM Problems on the 3800. And on top of that, bent a rod on number 5 cylinder.

The Repairs:
Found and fixed the hole in the Upper and pulled the piston and replaced the rod, even replaced rod bearings since I was down there already. Got everything buttoned back up with new bolts, gaskets, plugs, and fluids. Unfortunately I have a crank no start do deal with now. I have good spark on all 6, and know I've got fuel cause they came out wet after cranking for almost 20 seconds. Tried again the next day and she still wont turn over. Did some more research on everything from VATS to Ignition Modules to Body Controllers. Nothing comes close. All fuses good. Checked Cam and Crank sensors and timing (good also) but changed the sensors anyway just because I don't want to mess with it later.

It's been three weeks of hair pulling and nail biting every time I turn the key and still got nothing. Open to suggestions/comments/inspiration. Need this car up and running cause its all I got to find work and make money for the "toys" to add later...
 

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pop the oil cap off, and look inside while someone turns the engine over, make sure the rockers are still moving...

other than that you may have installed the cam out of phase...
 

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Discussion Starter #3
pop the oil cap off, and look inside while someone turns the engine over, make sure the rockers are still moving...

other than that you may have installed the cam out of phase...
Didn't pull cam or chain, just checked the magnet in the gear and sensor signals. I did put in some new stock pushrods cause they were all clogged with all the sludge in the top end but will double check the rockers as you suggested. Have a friend bringing a compression gauge and obd2 scanner. Maybe that will shed a little more light on the subject.:8
 

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the fact you have spark and fuel leads me to believe it's something in the valvetrain, like maybe the cam skipped a tooth or 2 when the crank stopped abruptly... check the cam timing... sucks to do but it's a likely suspect with a worn timing chain set and having had a nasty torsional shock
 

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Discussion Starter #5
the fact you have spark and fuel leads me to believe it's something in the valvetrain, like maybe the cam skipped a tooth or 2 when the crank stopped abruptly... check the cam timing... sucks to do but it's a likely suspect with a worn timing chain set and having had a nasty torsional shock
Would that be enough to cause valve interference? There is no resistance (plugs out of course) or noise while turning by hand. Or would it have to be completely "sideways" for that?
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Well my friend never came by with his gauge and scanner. Took your advice a bit further and just went ahead and took the front valve cover off and checked the movement while hand cranking. Everything moves just fine and on time. My nephew came by while I was looking around and posed the question, "What about the lifters?" :icon_eek: Gotta hand it to those Lincoln Tech boys...(sometimes) Started loosening the rockers to pull them out of the valley and the valves came up! (on more than one cylinder :icon_redf)

Lifters are not bleeding down enough or at all. I took one apart and the damned thing was completely varnished inside out and still had milkshake in the body. Just for proof of concept, I put it back in the bore and put a pushrod and rocker on it. Tightened the bolt and it seated oh so nicely without pushing the springs down. I would buy new ones if I could but flat broke. So I'll just clean em up as best I can. My gaskets are still intact so I wont have to buy new ones, just a little more RTV on the corners of the LIM.

Thanks for pointing me in the right direction. Hopefully she'll start this time.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Well after cleaning lifters and reassembling valvetrain, still no start. Took it to the shop to see what they have to say. I will repost when they get it running. I just got tired of chasing my tail with it.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Just an update...
Pulled the engine and put it on a stand with hopes to get it to the machine shop. Spring turns to summer, then started a new job. Of course what happens then, no time to work on it. :icon_conf

Summer turns to Fall, then into Winter. No room in the garage to store it but at least it was covered in plastic and a tarp to keep out the elements. Finally got time to get it down to the bare block and send it in for an expert analysis. Problem is, they're so backed up it'll be weeks till they even start a teardown and there is nobody in town with a long block just laying around.

Tax refund is coming and already burning a hole in my pocket. Working with a budget of about 2300. Just hoping the shop finds something simple to fix. Going rate on a shorty is around a grand and heads getting reworked are about 90 each so I should come in under 15 or 16 if I'm lucky... leaving about 700 or so for gaskets, paint, other nit picky parts.

Got a few pics of an empty bay if ya wanna look... ;)
 

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thanks for the update. It will be informative to find out what the real problem for the "no start" condition. Let us know the outcome. Best of luck!!
 

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You may have "spark" when testing the plugs, but the fact they still came out wet is bothersome. Remember the trifecta, you have to have fuel/spark and compression. Did you re-ring and hone while you were at it or just re-use everything? Did you do a compression or leak-down test? Spec for that can be found in a shop manual or on the internet at large.

If you have fuel/spark/sufficient compression, how GOOD is your spark would be the next question. I've seen bad plug/wire situation that will cause the condition of "spark" when the plug is tested in air, but won't ignite a fuel/air mixture in engine. Even with good compression. Might get all brand new plugs and wires just to be safe, and even though plugs are supposed to be "pre gapped", CHECK THEM ANYWAYS heh. I've seldom found that pre-gapped plugs are right where they need to be. Again, spec can be found easy enough in manuals or on the internet. It's even on the car its self usually.

Next then on spark is how GOOD are your coilpacks? Using a digital multi-meter, you can "ohm" test them and check if they are in spec. You guessed it, you can find this information on the internet at large or in a shop manual. Even the Haynes I have for the Stratus has this info for the coilpack and Chilton's or real factory service manuals would probably have it also If you're looking for detailed information/procedures, can't beat the factory manuals. I strongly recommend them for cars you plan on keeping a while and working on a lot yourself.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
I have the Haynes manual (19020) but the coil specs are not listed. Don't have a Chiltons but was looking around and found them on another post here from mcgarth in the Ignition Section (Coil Packs, Corroded Terminals).

"A stock Series 2 coil should measure 0.5 – 0.9 Ohms on the Primaries (terminals on the bottom of the coil) & 5k-8k Ohms on the Secondary’s (the two large prongs on top)."

That seems like some basic info we should all be familiar with but it seems to have passed us by. And yes new plugs and wires are in the works. If I do change coils I'll get Accels just cause I'm into yellow:8
Never did do a compression test but will definitely feel better when the block comes back from the shop. I used to work there years ago as a porter and know the machine guy personally so I trust him to give it to me straight. If nothing else I get a clean engine :love1:
 

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It's one of two things, 1-ignition module under the coil packs is faulted no way to test other then the car not starting. 2-on the fuel pump relay try jumpering the power pin with the fuel pump pin and see if the fuel pump turns on and with it on see if the car starts. This would be the fuel pump resistor also no easy way to test. It's located in a ****y (in the passenger side fender) spot and if broken will read either infinity or 0000. That could be what caused you piston to pop. Not enough fuel... If you know someone with the same car borrow there ignition module and do a quick swap. Hope this helps. I've been working on L67/32's since the 90's I've had every issue. What you describe in the post has to be one of the two issues.
 

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Discussion Starter #13 (Edited)
This is what my piston rod looks like... Could this be the problem? :icon_lol:

<br>
[/URL]
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Machine Shop Labor w/ Valve Job: $700
Piston Rings
Main Bearings (already replaced Rod Bearings so calm down)
Timing Set
Oil Pump
Lifters
New UIM
Full Gasket Kit
Water Pump
New Paint and maybe a lil chrome... :love1:
-----------------------
Looking at about $2500 after all said and done... but then we're never really done, are we?
 

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Is this the rod from the same cylinder #5 that you mentioned in the original post? or from a different hole?
I would start checking the tops of the pistons for small cracks ( I have seen this from detonation)....I would also inspect the cylinder bores for cracks....have seen this too. Also...check the heads.
Good Luck!
 

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Discussion Starter #15 (Edited)
yup that was number 5... Took that piston to get a new rod pressed in. Block is already in the shop and the machinist says no cracks, or any other issues for that matter.... curiouser and curiouser... Gave him all my rebuild parts and now just waiting to pick it up. sooo.. assuming the engine goes back in without any further issues I should be ready to go at least by the end of March.

 

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Makes me wonder about a flaky injector...run lean and detonate! Boom

aggravating, but at least you know. Thanks for the update
 

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Discussion Starter #17
No it was definitely coolant in the cylinder. The EGR tube burned a hole in the UIM that was only 1/4 in. wide. The Lower Manifold had enough water to take a bath in. When I got the heads off, #5 was filled to the deck. Thats when I started the research and found this forum. I had applied JB Weld to the hole in the Upper but I decided to just get a new one from AZ and keep the old one as a spare. I've already started painting other parts and was thinking about what dress up stuff to do. Got my eyes on that stainless braid for hoses and some wire looms but haven't found much else...
 

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I've already started painting other parts and was thinking about what dress up stuff to do. Got my eyes on that stainless braid for hoses and some wire looms but haven't found much else...
Now that the engine is out.....maybe check and clean all the grounds to the frame and such. Look over the wiring harness for any cuts/abrasions and check the connectors. Maybe clean the corrosion around the battery tray...I know mine probably needs that too.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Got engine block in last week and went ahead with a mock-up. Lookin to drop in this weekend...
 

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It looks nice.....good luck with the install.
 
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