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Discussion Starter #1
Hi all,

I am a little concerned about my new acquisition. I was exeperiencing valve float at 5,500 rpm with my ZZperformance ST1 Turbo Cam and my 105# springs and ~18psi of boost. Therefore I decided to switch to 150# Manley springs. The car runs great and I do not experience valve float anymore. However, given the stupid strength of these springs, I was wondering if anyone has experienced any problems running these springs with factory valves?

Here's my top end setup:

OE-R comp cam lifters
3/8" oil restricted INTENSE pushrods
Yella Terra 1.6 ratio roller rocker arms
150# Manley Springs
Manley Titanium valve spring retainers
STOCK Valves :icon_cry:

Comp Cams ST1 Stattama Turbo Cam specs:

•Duration @ .050" is 206°/206°.
•Lift is .512”/.512”.
•Lobe separation is 112 degrees.


Any help or insight would be highly appreciated!

Regards,

Andres
 

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I have SI valves, and I'm scared. If I had stock, I would be a paranoid freak.:icon_eek: If I were you, I would take it easy on the car until you have the money to get Manley valves from Intense.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Yeah, I spoke with Tim King about it yesterday, and he said he has never had any problems out of them. He said there's a customer of his running these valves with a Stage 5 cam and boosted with factory heads and no problems. And Mike Miller just called me back and said he doesn't recommend the unnecessary stress on the motor, and that 130's# should be sufficient. What about 130# springs? Has anybody tried a similar setup with something higher than 105's# and smaller than 150's#?
 

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105# is fine. Why are you looking to beat up your valve-train for no reason?
 

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Discussion Starter #5
I'm not :icon_frow It valve floats with 105# (They may have been weak because they are 6+ years old and 30,000 miles). No more valve float with 150#, but I think it's too aggressive for my setup.
 

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I'm not :icon_frow It valve floats with 105# (They may have been weak because they are 6+ years old and 30,000 miles). No more valve float with 150#, but I think it's too aggressive for my setup.
Valve float huh? What are you spinning to. I have never heard of floating 105s with anything under a stage 3 unless you're spinning way the f up there.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
It was spinning at 5,500 when it would fall on its face. So, because of what you're telling me, I'm positive there was something wrong with my 105# springs then... Going back down to 130# next weekend :icon_frow
 

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It was spinning at 5,500 when it would fall on its face. So, because of what you're telling me, I'm positive there was something wrong with my 105# springs then... Going back down to 130# next weekend :icon_frow
I'd look more towards fuel or serious KR. 5,500 is NOTHING. Stock springs will go to 6,500 with that cam.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
it was throwing 4 degrees of KR on the dyno a couple of weeks back. No KR now or fuel issues... I have 60 lbs injectors, .025" on the plug gap, new ignition module, coils, wires. Anyways, the bottom line is I have no valve float and the car doesn't miss a beat. However I have a lot of concerns because I don't know how hard these springs can be on the valves... It sounds like it's slamming them shut! :icon_eek:
 

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it was throwing 4 degrees of KR on the dyno a couple of weeks back. No KR now or fuel issues... I have 60 lbs injectors, .025" on the plug gap, new ignition module, coils, wires. Anyways, the bottom line is I have no valve float and the car doesn't miss a beat. However I have a lot of concerns because I don't know how hard these springs can be on the valves... It sounds like it's slamming them shut! :icon_eek:
If you can hear them snapping shut they were installed wrong and your seat pressure is probably crazy. The springs will destroy your chain and damper first. If they're too aggressive you can snap the valve head off and depending on if the seats were cut, get valve recession into the head. It's not as simple as everyone thinks.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Agreed. That's enough said for me to take the decision to go to a lower rate on the springs. I have a double roller timing chain so, I'm not really concerned about it snapping. Is it safe to run 130# springs with stock heads?
 

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Discussion Starter #12
The more people I talk to, the more I hear to run 105# springs with my setup. Why was it valve floating with 105's before then? They were comp cams springs... Anyone ever had trouble with those? Any boosted cars out there running 105# @ 18psi on a turbo car with the same or similar lift as mine? (.512") This is driving me nuts!
 

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Discussion Starter #14
The springs were? A machine shop cleaned the heads and installed these springs for me... I also had comp cams retainers with those... maybe the harmonics weren't right... I now have Manley retainers and will order the 105# Crow Cams springs tonight if you advise to go with those instead of the 130#'s....
 

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You need to check the lifter pre-load. IIRC comp oe-r's have a different preload than most other lifters. It would be a good idea to study up on valve train geometry and set-up. I agree with Brandon, it is not as easy as most people believe, definately not plug and play!
 

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You need to check the lifter pre-load. IIRC comp oe-r's have a different preload than most other lifters. It would be a good idea to study up on valve train geometry and set-up. I agree with Brandon, it is not as easy as most people believe, definately not plug and play!
The geometry of the valve train is perfect. I have yella terra roller rockers 1.6 ratio which use 7.3" pushrods, causing the oe-r lifters to be preloaded at .016" (Perfect for oe-r's). Also, once again... the problem is related to valve float, not lifter preload. The motor has been built for 6 years running the same boost and same parts. It all of the sudden decided to valve float... Which leads me to believe that this has to do with BAD SPRINGS. It has been a while since I held it wide open, and that's when I experienced the float.... Maybe they aren't used to being stretched that far and that hard anymore. That's why I decided to change them and now I don't have any valve float... Just a big heavy and dark conscience telling me I should go with smaller springs to protect the life of my valves, hence the reason for my post :) I agree that valve trains are not as simple as people think they are, that's the reason why I'm doing things the right way, I was just curious if people have run this setup before, and if so, how long will it last?

Thanks for the input anyways!
 

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You need to check the lifter pre-load. IIRC comp oe-r's have a different preload than most other lifters. It would be a good idea to study up on valve train geometry and set-up. I agree with Brandon, it is not as easy as most people believe, definately not plug and play!
CC lifters are about half as tolerant as the LS7 lifters which are proven time and time again.

Just because it's a machine shop doesn't mean they did it right. Our 3.8 is not the same as a T-Type 3.8 which is what a ton of these shops spec our engine to because they assume there's no difference.

Check your rockers for proper oiling. It should literally squirt out of the rocker hole at about 3k. If it's doing that you're geometery can't be that bad.

Very few things cause valve float and it makes a distinct hollow sound when it does happen. I floated at 8,800 with my 105s and the VS.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
CC lifters are about half as tolerant as the LS7 lifters which are proven time and time again.

Just because it's a machine shop doesn't mean they did it right. Our 3.8 is not the same as a T-Type 3.8 which is what a ton of these shops spec our engine to because they assume there's no difference.

Check your rockers for proper oiling. It should literally squirt out of the rocker hole at about 3k. If it's doing that you're geometery can't be that bad.

Very few things cause valve float and it makes a distinct hollow sound when it does happen. I floated at 8,800 with my 105s and the VS.
ok, cool. I'll have these things checked! I don't have valve float anymore but I'll check for oiling on the rockers when I take the valve covers off. I was just wondering about the valves and 150# and I think we've covered that. Also, now that you said you floated at 8,800, then I'm confident I can run my 20 psi with 105's and the cam I have. Thanks to everybody for the advise!

I'll post back in a week after I install the new 105's crow cams springs that I ordered from INTENSE the day before yesterday.
 

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:icon_frow
ok, cool. I'll have these things checked! I don't have valve float anymore but I'll check for oiling on the rockers when I take the valve covers off. I was just wondering about the valves and 150# and I think we've covered that. Also, now that you said you floated at 8,800, then I'm confident I can run my 20 psi with 105's and the cam I have. Thanks to everybody for the advise!

I'll post back in a week after I install the new 105's crow cams springs that I ordered from INTENSE the day before yesterday.
So, the 105# springs install was a total success :icon_lol:. Not only does the car run great, but I have no more valve float, TONS of power (shift points happen at 6,200 rpm with no problems, and the motor is back to its normal loudness -->> No more valves getting brutally-slapped shut.

Thank you guys for the advice!!! There is no doubt in my mind that I just had bad luck out of those 105 Comp Cams springs! (Counting on the fact that the machine shop did in fact install the 105# 6 years ago when I handed them along with my heads and not just pocketed them and used factory 60# springs :icon_frow )

Once again, Thanks for all the help and keep up the great work!
 
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