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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have a 2007 3.8L NA and trying to see if any possible upgrades on the TB have been done. Did the search function on the forum and nothing came up, the drive by wire has limited post so hopefully there is a solution.
 

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The diameter of Series 3 throttle bodies is 75mm, and flows more than enough air for N/A 3800's (even S/C ones are happy to have that bore available).

The main upgrade for them is the ZZP High Velocity Intake Insert (HVII) to greatly improve power through the whole RPM range... The HVIII/HV3 is out of stock, but a new version is supposed to be available soon (HV4). I've got an HV3 in my L26 intake I use with an adapted 75mm cable TB on the turbo Regal, and it's great.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
The diameter of Series 3 throttle bodies is 75mm, and flows more than enough air for N/A 3800's (even S/C ones are happy to have that bore available).

The main upgrade for them is the ZZP High Velocity Intake Insert (HVII) to greatly improve power through the whole RPM range... The HVIII/HV3 is out of stock, but a new version is supposed to be available soon (HV4). I've got an HV3 in my L26 intake I use with an adapted 75mm cable TB on the turbo Regal, and it's great.
Have the insert already along with the power logs and the lifters, just checking or more confirming that nothing has changed on the TB as far possible upgrades. Looking at highway vs off the line all minor upgrades but basically any improvements over GM that do not require a engine removal.

Thank you for the reply.
 

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Don't need to remove the engine for a cam, supercharger, turbo, or nitrous install. 😉 If what you mean is not doing significant upgrades to gain more than a couple HP here and there, that's just not the case with an N/A 3800 as shown by many over the last 25yrs.

You can dig thru the engine bay, and do minor things like rotate the upper motor mount bushings on the radiator support (or swap to poly) for slightly better response/less movement. There's plenty of tinkering you can discover as you learn about each thing that is and isn't required under the hood.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Don't need to remove the engine for a cam, supercharger, turbo, or nitrous install. 😉 If what you mean is not doing significant upgrades to gain more than a couple HP here and there, that's just not the case with an N/A 3800 as shown by many over the last 25yrs.

You can dig thru the engine bay, and do minor things like rotate the upper motor mount bushings on the radiator support (or swap to poly) for slightly better response/less movement. There's plenty of tinkering you can discover as you learn about each thing that is and isn't required under the hood.
I'm guessing you haven't seen a Lucerne as rotating the upper motor mounts, well lets just say its a little impossible. I would never have picked a 3.8L in a Lucerne to do anything significant other than available minor tweaks where MPG, HP and TQ could have some small gains. My days of BB Chevy, Mopar, Buick and Cadillac engines in stock form would be better as I come from a world where there's nothing that cubic inches can't solve LOL.

Again was just checking if any new items may have turned up on TB as the S3 like the Lucerne is somewhat limited on aftermarket parts. It's a stay at home quarantine project basically started out of boredom last year as a hobby and I appreciate the input.
 

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Forgot it's a Lucerne not Lacrosse. I'd get an HPTuners and a wideband, and enjoy tinkering with minor timing/fueling/shiftpoint tweaks to satisfy your curiosity in how much MPG and butt dyno improvements you can get.

Don't sleep on how boost/EFI/DI/OHC/VVT/etc. has helped replace/optimize displacement in the modern era. The combination of modern 300-430ci V8's with boost has made the limited functionality of old SB/BB engines one step away from obsolete, aside from all out ProLine-style ProMod engines.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
You can't forget it's a Lucerne 3.8L as HP Tuners doesn't support it, at least on the vehicle listings, which follows along with every other aftermarket manufacturer LMAO. If someone does have support it's usually only the Northstar engine, same on suspension components as I said if I was to pick a go fast vehicle this would not be it. It's a challenge to find anything beyond stock and again I am only trying to make the engine the most efficient, not the most HP or TQ just a efficient air pump at the 70MPH+ range.
 

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You'd want to go the route we did before tuners were available ~15-20yrs ago, then, and use the occasional piggyback items. If you wanted the easy answer of being able to swap out the first part you looked at under the hood to gain 5mpg, that's just not the case. Best MPG's is fairly maxxed on 3800's as they arrive getting ~30hwy +/-5 depending on situation, and maintenance is your friend. If you want better, a Ford Fusion Hybrid or something similar getting 45+ is the next step near this size class.

Also, this forum was built on making cars that usually get ignored into street-driven go-fast rides of various levels. Sure, only a few have gone single-digits, but 99.9% of daily-driven cars are nowhere near that and 11-12-13-sec rides get the job done well for $5-10k. The newer $75k+ sports cars or well-modded custom rides are the rare things you'd have trouble with at a stoplight or highway (and most classics need a few house payments under the hood to upgrade from the old version of "fast" to today's definition)... And we definitely put more miles of smiles on them than most others.

Edit: I know that's not what you're going for, I just like defending the place in the grand scheme of car world that this platform typically fills. There's always a way to squeeze something out of them, but it depends on how much time/research/effort/money it's worth vs. the gains you're looking for. In the hunt for MPG's, the cost is probably going to deter much beyond the basics.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Just asked if any advance had been made on the 3.8L S3 TB, which it hasn't apparently. Thank you for your time.
 

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What exactly are you trying to learn? That the diameter of TB that s/c guys use for getting more than 2x your HP level is sufficient for an everyday 3800?

You can look into the plethora of free and cheap mods that have been done for 20-25yrs on these engines to improve general operation... Voltage supply/ground clean-up and improvements, smoothing the intake pathway (accordions aren't exactly the best there), cooler and less restrictive air/fuel supply.

Honestly, without the ability to tune, you're unable to do some things that'd help much more (increased timing advance, optimized fuel curves, leaner cruise like Aussies get, etc.). You can poke at the engine bay buying random bolt-on things like coils, but the factory items are very robust in most departments like that, and minimal to no gain is available without more labor-intensive items.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
I never said I wasn't going to get a tune just that there isn't one off the shelf for a 07 series 3 Lucerne from anyone, but you could prove me wrong. The DBW TB is one item that if any options were available it would be something to review before putting a tune on.

But assuming is what forums are for. I guess if I was a boy racer and looking to go really fast between stop lights is probably more acceptable.
 

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Heh, I guess if you did the math for how long a few of us have been tinkering with these specific engines as a side hobby, your little jab would seem even more uninformed. You're welcome to pursue anything you want, but it seems that outside input isn't part of that.

I'm curious what has got you hyperfocused on the TB? There's dozens to hundreds of other things you could do to attempt turning an iron heads, iron block, large-chassis'd, 4spd auto car into a hypermileage car (hyperbole for levity).

If you want to actually get some input regarding efficiency improvements, apply the approach of not asking a question you already have predetermined acceptable replies. Being confrontational when your chosen avenue to pursue is discussed as not being advantageous for both the reason you want to upgrade nor for performance gains in the general theater with which we frequent here, isn't going to produce a lot of forthcoming of feedback.

It's pretty typical understanding among adults seeking advice to not hurl insults at those trying to help you when advice contradicts your viewpoint. That is more of a behavior exhibited by children, or boys.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Again it's not reading or understanding what is being written. Never said hyper mileage as that is your words not mine, I said HP, TQ and mileage improvements. No fascination on TB it was a simple question which apparently couldn't be directly answered without unrelated information being tossed out, see post #2.

No resistance except when it's only one person who responded and has a opinion of forum survival.

Done
 

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You seemed to repeatedly misconstrue my responses after the first couple. More importantly, you ignored the 5-6 alternate upgrades that would certainly net you improvements, not to mention tuning options we used 20yrs ago before the days of HPTuners and even DHP.

Feel free to stomp out of the room, but don't blame it on the lack of information provided when you didn't like the way it was couched in discussion of performance gains. Efficiency = performance in many ways, and many who optimize their setups with bolt-ons see gains in both. It's just when adding even more for specific gains beyond basics that MPG's start taking a hit.
 

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to echo dave's comments, there's really no gains in the TB area to be had. the stock TB flows more than enough to support more HP than you're currently set up for. I mean, there were some mods to smooth out the bores and remove the humps. Or, switch to cable actuated Northstar and LQ4 MAF which might be a little more free flowing. But not being able to tune it, you have to search out an AFC to rescale the MAFF curve which was how we did our tuning back in the early 2000s before DHP and HPTuners came out.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
It was a very simple question on a TB that someone couldn't give a direct answer, yes or no, check the first reply.

And what is with the 20 year old suggestions, what should I do adjust the distributor and put in bigger jets LOL. It's a 07 3.8L series 3 and it's time to move on to modern technology like getting a tune, please make up your forum minds.

Again, this is getting like a time warp, never said I wasn't getting a tune but only looking at all possible options prior to getting it done, I can keep repeating this but not sure anyone is paying attention.

If anyone thinks is just a easy route then you really don't know anything about a Lucerne, even ZZP was unsure about the rear power log and down pipe fitment. The ZZP coils, well that assumption was wrong as my 95 3.8 coil went out and I just swapped the Lucerne's which had 60k over. It was a what the hell moment to put ZZP on then slapping stock back in. I guess if I put a cat back system I would have gotten the the thumbs up, it is overrated but it looks and sounds cool so to each their own.
 

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hmm. you're asking for modern answers for an unsupported platform and rejecting the suggestions you receive. with responses like that, all I can say is "good luck".
 

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Seeing as you have done nothing but poke at your engine with a stick, in the grand scheme of things regarding changes, I'd say there's no evidence of "years of experience making things work" being displayed.

Let's say I told you to go ahead and swap a 102mm LSx TB on there, so it could run into the 75mm opening in your upper intake directly afterwards... and included wiring schematics and instructions to get it running without being able to program the computer that regulates the blade... Were you going to offer up some before/after data on a few tanks of gas, and honestly show that it did/didn't make a difference, or just say it doesn't fit your choice of responses?

The simple dismissal of the offered solution to adjust fueling tables via external electronics in the absence of mapped-out programming options is evidence that you're not really in the market for answers to your overall question... "How can I make my car run better/more efficient/improve mileage/etc.?"

Heck, you blindly wanted to spend $200 to replace an OEM stainless tubular rear manifold with a shiny higher grade stainless tubular log manifold that for what reason? Knowing the ability of those rear manifolds to last decades, and flow sufficiently for higher power levels, let alone stock, it's certainly not an area for 1st $1,000 realm improvements.

We would LOVE to help you get the most from your car in whatever way you like, but biting at any hand offering any sort of assistance tends to cause fewer to be offered. Replies aren't going to be abundant in that case. I've re-read the early entries above, and you can tell when the tone got snippy, and only then was it given in return.
 
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