[tan]

STAY AWAY FROM NOS!!!!!!!
With a supercharger, turbo etc. to be safe, you really need to run a wet system. A dry system, unless you plumb right to the injectors, will not distribute the nos evenly about the cylinders causing piston melt down, head gasket problems, and problems with heat on your front bank o2 sensor. If you use a wet system you will remove the teflon coating that is on the SC rotors. There are much better ways to increase HP than with NOS on a SC engine.

 

[bumpin96monte!]

"A dry system, unless you plumb right to the injectors, will not distribute the nos evenly about the cylinders "

I didn't know anyone even sold a direct port dry setup...

 

[L67fiero]

been running a wet system for almost a year now and no issues.

 

[tan]

Chad,
I believe Nitrous Express sells a direct plumb system. They may not sell a kit but, I think they sell what you would need to do it. I have a friend who's running a direct pumb to his Regal. The next time I see him I'll ask where he got it.

 

[tan]

James,
I don't know what type of blower is on your car. But, with the SC thats on the GTP's, the rotors have a teflon coating and the gas not the nitrous is what does the harm. Good luck. Those are some pretty impressive times you've got posted. What was your 1/4mile time?

 

[L67fiero]

thanks, I have never ran the 1/4 mile , but the 1/4 calculater figures it to be near 11.9
I am running an eaton M62 with teflon coated rotors same as the m90, I talked with many people (including Zoomer @ zzp)about running a wet kit through the sc and everyone said it was fine that it would not hurt anything and I have not had a problem. It is not like the gas is just setting on the rotors soaking them for hours.

 

[tan]

WOW! Thats the fastest Fiero every heard of. Seen them run at the track , and they never broke 13's. Must be the NOS huh. And I do wish you well with your nitrous. But, I didn't post that thread based on opinion, My GTP is a 98'. After I made some exhaust and intake mods I put a wet system on my car. about a year after I had it , maybe 8,000 miles. Everything was fine at first. Then I started to have problems when I would squirt it . Not all the time but now and then. Then it began to happen all the time. Flaten right out, it would act like it was getting no air. And low and behold the teflon was peeling off in sheets. So much for my nitrous. And believe me I was a nitrous madman. Installed my first nitrous system in 87' on 302 mustang. I was told it wouldn't hurt my SC also. But, when I began to inquire as to the reason my teflon would peel off like it did, I was told it was the gas in my nitrous system. Was it caused by something else? maybe, but I don't think so. Some guys who belong to a car club I belong to here in Detroit told me they've heard of other people with the same trouble. Anyway thats my reasoning I hope you have better luck than I did. Check out the posts on cleaning you SC on this site as to the sensitivity of the teflon coating. But with times like your getting I don't blame you for using it. What horse shot are you using?

 

[L67fiero]

Mine isnt the fastest there a several others quiet a bit faster than mine. I am running a 100 shot. I have the jets to step it up to 125 but have not made it to the track with the 125 shot. I am about to swap the series 1 out for a series2 with several mods and a 125 shot, I have had belt issues with the series1. I have everything running off of a single belt and the belt seems to slip under heavy load when I spray it.

 

[camlifter]

if you take apart a s/c and look at the coating (i don't think it's really teflon) you'll see that it dosn't do much, it's only about 1 or 2 mils thick, comes nowhere near sealing the rotors to the case, and is very soft, i have a blower here that i ported and coated the rotors and the inside of the case with powder coating, had to coat it 3 times to reach a case to rotor clearance of .005. have not installed it yet to see how well it will hold up. loosing the coating is no big deal

 

[12secondv6]

Actually, only safest set up is a true direct port wet system.

I haven't heard of a direct port dry system

Spraying for 6+ years now and going strong.

I've run dry and wet kits

 

[tan]

The only true safe nitrous system is one that stays in the box. I started using nitrous in the late 80's. Sometimes it goes well, sometimes it doesn't. I've had good luck and I've had bad luck. There is an acknowledged risk when you put in a bottle. When you start squirting 100 plus horse shots, on a blown car you can really get in trouble if your not careful. I'm squirting 125 horse in a 350sb, 750 demon carb. It works great, lots of fun. But, not a wet fog, blowing thru a SC, thru a manifold into a combustion chamber with stock pistons. The distributon of the shot is just to unreliable at that high of horsepower shot. The real drag about nitrous is that nobody will buy a car from you if they know you've been squirting it.

 

[tan]

It is teflon. Teflon is a common coating in aluminum castings and moveable parts housed in aluminum castings. It serves two main purposes, to provide lubricity and to prevent static shock created by the movement of the rotors. That is why it is used commercially, especially in industrial robotics. I figured it was used on our SC for the same reason. If not, why is it there??

 

[seen96]

Just an idea.....what if you put a single wet nozzle tapped into the intake manifold AFTER the S/C but, not quite DIRECT port? Will that still work correctly?

 

[3800L67]

We ran Water/Methanol injection through our M90 in the early days but have now removed it in favour of a turbo with intercooler.

What we did notice upon removal of the M90 was the rotors were all pitted and delaminated of the Teflon coating.

We'd noticed a deterioration in performance and a loss of bosst over the time span of running the Water/Methanol injection mix.

Would this be attributed by the loss of rotor coating ... this is does it increase the amount of gap/tolernace therefor reducing rotor clearances and seal and therefore result in a decrease in performance ?

... why is is relevant to this thread ... is this the same effect No2 Teflon coating erroding has on the M90 ?

Regards

Tonsta

 

[tan]

I feel our M90 have a major design flaw in the way the air enters the SC. The air has an upward lift like an airplane wing. It's in the design of the opening, can't be helped. This opening also favors the right rotor, entering trhe SC in a clockwise direction. This causes a direct clash at the rotor. The blades smoothness and geometry is all there is to evenly distribute the air inside th SC and so on into the Intake manifold. I think the condition of the rotors has a certain effect on performance. Now, take the above condition and add a fluid/fog shooting across a somewhat fragile rotor coating, into what I think is a somewhat uneven air distribution to the manifold. Well, the possibility for problems are there. To be safe no more than a 50 horse shot direct plumb to the FI. Actually, a nice light squirt into the CC has a nice IC effect. But, I paid $4.50 a LB. this last summer for nitrous. Getting a bit pricey. By the way Tonsta, terrific times with that 98' commodore. Can't go wrong with a well set up turbo. With those times, yours is well set up.

 

[johnt]

The air has an upward lift like an airplane wing. It's in the design of the opening, can't be helped. This opening also favors the right rotor, entering trhe SC in a clockwise direction.

Tom,

I'm interested in this statement. Can you provide a little more information as to why you think so? This would be supported by some of the damage that occured in Ed Morad's motor when he was running nitrous. When he froze and burst his IC core, it was the rear vanes that were burst. Every time he blew a set of gaskets on nitrous it was almost always #4. When he exploded one of his header runners, you guessed it, #4. I had attributed that to the chaotic nature of the airflow after the blower, possibly aggravated by the location of his nozzle (that was just a guess on my part).

Just an idea.....what if you put a single wet nozzle tapped into the intake manifold AFTER the S/C but, not quite DIRECT port?

I wouldn't trust that to deliver the same amount of fuel to each cylinder. Sorry to be such a purist, but with our SC'ed motors the right way is direct port.

John

 

[tan]

Pretty good guess! #4 is going to always be the most likely. Just due to it's location. That cyl. is taking a massive hit of NOS when going thru a SC. Compound that with the tunneling action an IC gives the air flow anyway. You can easily see how this is the most likely cyl. to have problems. The entire design of the air entry opening at the end of the SC coupled with an open chamber intake manifold makes clean flow almost impossible. Polishing the SC air inlet tunnel helps some. The intake manifolds absolutly need a good cleaning up with a die grinder. This will help some also. However, the design itself is the real problem.

 

[donniearcher]

First off Tan is full of SHI$% when it comes to Nitrous. Not NOS, that is like the 4cyl ricer way of saying nitrous. If nitrous eats tefflon (SO MUSH CRAP) then all 6 of my carbed 6:71 cars were running with out tefflon, HOW DO TEFFLON caoted pistons run in oil pressure and heat and moisture??? If you say something then offer proof for the crap you say. Go read a about the theory of nitrous and how it works when it is burned and compressed. I tried to get a little information from the board for Nitrous but all I run across is a buch of CRAP from people who don't even know what the hell nitrous is, they think it is a flamable gas??????? WTF man.. Dry Kits spread evenly, their down fall is that they are made to spray in front of the MAF sensor and cool off the the hot wire so your car thinks you just had a **** load of air just come in and therefore tries to sompensate by adding Fuel, thus measuring out. Learn about this crap before you give advice on it.

My current PRO 5.0 car runs a 100mm BIG thumper turbo 33lbs of boost and a 300 shot>>> current HP levels are 1367HP at rear wheels.
I run 8:50 at 150+MPH withought Nitrous.

So unless you are at the level that I am running, then DON'T give dumb a$$ advice?????

 

[donniearcher]

Well any time, one thing I will agree with him on, wetter is better. Dry is ok, a 50 shot won't tear up your engine. Nitrous does not tear up a motor , bad tuning does. And most people get the, just add another 50 shot, syndrom. DONT GET GREEDY. Just like anything else you need to tune. Start out with 50 and once you understand what is going on then gradually incread and drop plug coldness, along with timing. You should " in theory" pull out 2 Degrees for every 50. Forced induction does not change this, Your computer will automatically compensate for the boost by pulling timing. However make sure the forced induction is tuned and in running proper. Scanners are great but PYRO METERS TELL YOU A HELL OF A LOT MORE THEN A SCANNER. You can blow up a car quicker with a turbo then Nitrous.

Here's what you should do.

NX wet nozzle kit. place the nozzle after your throttle body. Go with a step colder, NGK, plug then normal , and DO NOT USE PLATINUMS NO NO NO. NGK has a special process they in their pressing that makes them a better use in extreme varience withought spark loss. Install with the kit, a fuel pressure safety kit, and a WOT - wide open throttle switch. Only use the nitrous when you have these parameters in place and I guarantee you will never blow up your engine with a 50 shot.

 

[DirtyDave_GTP98]

Watch it guys. Keep it clean.