3800Pro Forums banner

1 - 10 of 10 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
8 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
My son and I are working on his 1994 Buick Regal with a 3.8L engine. We replaced the head gaskets and are putting it back together.

I have read several posts on the forum about needing to replace the rocker arm bolts. The posts were all for series 2 and 3 engines. My son's 94 is a series 1 engine.

We have the GM service manual and it says to clean the bolts, torque to 18ft lb +70 degrees. But that would make it a TTY bolt wouldn't it?


Also as to replacing the bolts... The posts on this forum mention these bolts.
https://zzperformance.com/products/rocker-arm-bolts

Summit Racing does not show these bolts fitting the 94.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated!
Thanks
Charrie
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
932 Posts
If the bolts are torque to yield type, these are not suppose to be reused. If I were in your shoes, I would contact ARP and get a set of their rocker bolts. These are made of a much better alloy and can be reused if proper torquing is done. Personally, I just can't swallow using this type of bolt where they can be used ONCE ONLY safely. When I did a major engine upgrade on my GTP, all the bolts via ARP were used. And if necessary, used again. As always when torquing the bolts, be sure to use a little oil on the threads to ensure a good torque spec when it's all done. If you wanted to go a step further, use "ANTI SEIZE" on the threads(or oil) when torquing the bolts.

Good luck, Jake
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
That's the big question. Are the bolts TTY?
Here are the instructions directly from the 1994 GM Buick Regal service manual.

"Clean the rocker arms and pedestal bolts in a suitable solution and inspect for wear. Make sure to clean all of the thread adhesive from the rocker arm pedestal bolts.
Install the pedestal and rocker arm assemblies, then tighten the retaining bolts as follows: 18 ft. lbs., plus an additional 70° with a torque angle meter."

Then to confuse things more, here is part from an Autozone set of instructions.
"On 1996-99 vehicles, the rocker arm bolts are designed to permanently stretch when tightened. The correct part number fastener must be used to replace this type of fastener. Do NOT use a bolt which is stronger in this application. If the proper bolt is not used, the parts will not be tightened correctly, and part or system damage may occur."


I have no problem with replacing the bolts if i can find them....
From what I am learning Buick was making a lot of changes to the 3.8 used in the regal around 93 to 95 and then came the series 2 engines. There are several key parts that can not be found new because they weren't used long enough for after market companies to make them...

According to RA, 93 to 94 and some 95's used the same cylinder heads and that's it...

Unless I can find the bolts pretty quick, we may wind up having to put the engine back together like it is and change out the bolts later.
WE took this engine apart with the car under the metal carport and now with the temperature changes and rains we are having, rust is starting to become a problem.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
932 Posts
If the bolts that you removed are the OEM bolts, they are "torque to yield". These type of bolts are not to be reused. That said, I would buy some good bolts(like ARP or another vendor) and call it a day. As I mentioned before, put some oil on the bolts being installed so you get better torquing pressure.
Jake

PS, if you are totally confused about all this, you can always go to a GM dealer store and buy a new set of torque to yield rocker bolts. If you use those, check a good service manual for proper torquing procedure. Generally torquing this type of bolt, there is a spec in the OEM proceedure. Many of these specs are something like tighten to X AMOUNT OF TORQUE and then ANOTHER 45 degrees or whatever is designated in the service manual.THAT SAID, check the OEM SPECS TO BE SURE YOU ARE DOING THIS CORRECTLY.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
Thanks for the replies!
Zen357, this is a 1994 Buick Regal with a series 1 3.8L engine. i think it is also known as a L27 engine... The nuts for the rocker arms do not apply to this model.

I called ARP and they did not have a set of bolts. They said I would have to send them all the specs on the bolts and they would see what they had.

I called Intense racing because they sell a set of reusable bolts but they quickly told me those bolts were for the series 2 engine and would not fit the series 1.
INTENSE Racing: INTENSE Re-usable Rocker Arm Bolts

I called 2 different Buick dealers and talked with their parts department. They both said the bolts were available but neither had 12 of them in stock.
The part number they gave me is "24503515"

I called Zzperformance and they sell a set of 24503515 bolts but told me that they were for a series 2 engine and he doubted they would fit a series 1.
He said if I bought them then I would be stuck with them.
https://zzperformance.com/products/rocker-arm-bolts

I ran across a post where a guy was installing series 2 heads on a series 1 block. There was a pic of the series 1 and 2 rocker arms side by side with the bolts.
In the pic, the bolts were very different but mine looked like the bolts used on the series 2 rockers but my engine is a series 1.

The only think i can guess as of now is that the 94 is some kind of mixed mutt... My son also has a 1992 regal with a 3.8. It has a metal upper plenum.. The 1994 uses a plastic plenum and the EGR tube goes into the plenum like the series 2's but the 1994 is supposed to be a series1...

As to bolts and torque. I have a 2 volume set of the GM Buick factory service manuals for this car. It states 18FT lb +70 to stock bolts.

The reusable bolts torque to 25ft lb.

If i could find out how to post pics I could show you the difference in the rockers and bolts
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8 Posts
Discussion Starter #7 (Edited)
let me see if this works for pics

Ok I think this worked.
This pic below is one of the rockers with bolt on my 94 Regal. Notice the small head on the bolt.
[/url][/IMG]



This pic below, the rocker on the left is from a series 2 and the rockers on the right are on a series 1 head.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
Thank you Zen357.
I ordered a set from ZZperformance. They too do not deal in series 1 engine parts and had no clue if the bolts would fit or not. I ordered their set of bolts because their part number matches the number two different Buick dealers told me I needed.

Thanks
Charrie
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
Thanks for all the advice...

Thought i should follow up and let you all know the bolts came in today and they are the same as the old bolts. So now we know that the "24503515" bolt sold for the series 2 engines will at least fit a 1994 Buick Regal 3.8 series 1 engine.

According to the Buick dealer they would fit 93-96 and then he named a few more on up to 2005. He said pretty much any thing that has a 3.8 up to 2005.

These came from zzperformance and are not reusable. The ones at Intense are reusable but I didn't buy them because the guy told me they would not fit a series 1 engine. Well now we know different.

It is somewhat frustrating trying to find parts for this 1994 as Buick was making changes from 93-95 and so many parts are no longer aviable.
 
1 - 10 of 10 Posts
Top