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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I hear so much now about how dangerous Intense PCM's are... i was planning on getting a Stage 1 PCM for my new cam setup, but now i don't know what to do... there is no other option for me really unless i just stick with the DHP... anyway to explain this so i don't have to worry? thanks
 

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1) I posted several times several months ago that stock L32 engine fuel injectors were completely pegged with only a 3.40" supercharger pulley. Many 2004 GTP/CompG owners ignored this advice and switched to smaller pulleys without installing larger fuel injectors. These people were/are living on borrowed time, and will continue to destroy pistons regardless of whose PCM brand they run.

2) Every 2004 GTP/CompG that has broken pistons to date has had an INTENSE PCM installed, because that has been the only real option. And most of these people would have probably broken pistons with ANY brand of PCM, if the fuel injector sizing issue wasn't addressed on their cars.

3) We list well over a hundred testimonials on our site from customers who LOVE INTENSE PCM's. Yes, one of those customers is my girlfriend Tracy, and if you've ever met her you''d understand that her opinion MATTERS! Anyway, take a few minutes to actually read over some of these comments.

Here are a few relevant examples:

'INTENSE PCM is, by leaps and bounds, the best 2004 pcm on the market currently. I have a renewed confidence in my car in both consistency and performance. They addressed the problems I had with the other vendors pcms.' - Ryan Cayton, '04 GTP

'Truly fabulous!! The new PCM from INTENSE really woke the car up! I ran my buddy who also has a CompG and he could not believe how quickly I pulled away from him!' - Brian Arellano, '04 GTP CompG

'I can notice improvements in power' - Alford Martin, '04 GTP CompG

'Love it!' - Becky Petzold, '04 GTP

'Everything is perfect. Combined with all of the parts of the level 2 kit, the car is unbelievable.' - Brandon Janes, '04 GTP

'Excellent upgrade in shift points and overall more fun to drive.' - Gregory Dull, '04 GTP

'Love the performance - pulls great.' - John Chandler, '04 GTP

'On my first drive... WOW! I am impressed! Most certainly a noticeable difference!' - Lucas Kane Busard, '04 GTP CompG

'Hit the gas and whiiiiiiiiiiine - it runs all the way to the redline like a whipped bitch. I couldn't have asked for more. Smooth power, solid yet smooth shifting. Shift points right where they should be.' - Allen Kevorkov, '04 GTP CompG

'Love it.' - Chris Desio, '04 GTP CompG

'The greatest thing in the world is a launch not limited by PCM control!' - Chuck Perkins, '04 GTP CompG

'This thing is awesome. Best performance for the money anyone could buy. I can't believe I waited this long to purchase it.' - David Scott, '04 GTP

'Great job. You can sure tell the difference.' - Dennis Morrison, '04 GTP CompG

'Trust me people this is a very awesome mod, especially at the top end, WTFO!!!' - John Kuehner, '04 GTP CompG

'WOW! What a difference. I can really feel things loosen up in the top end! Feels like it doesn't want to stop pulling. Bring on those pesky little Mustangs now! And by the way, my experience with Scott at INTENSE has been nothing less than excellent. Responses to email questions have been very quick. I would not hesitate to recommend their PCM.' - Randy Howe, '04 GTP CompG

'The car is much more responsive, no more hesitation. Love the new PCM.' - Larry Maier, '04 GT

'Awesome!' - Mike Cook, '04 GTP CompG

'Simply love it. Totally changes the feel of the car.' - Tom Harrington, '04 GTP CompG

'It's great, well worth the money!' - Travis Wynia, '04 GTP CompG

'Shifts are much softer than the DHP. Burst knock retard is now gone, yea!!! Overall I am very pleased' - David M. Moore, '01 GTP

I will say that this PCM pulls just as hard and shifts just as strong as the DHP that I used to have in the car with the same modds. Im not going to come right out and say that one is better than the other because Im only going by the seat of my pants feeling. I can say for only paying $169 Im very happy with it. Its nice to see all the info right on the pcm, they even put the VIN number on there + a nice Intense sticker.' - David Nichols, '01 GTP

'I sold the DHP for the INTENSE, no regrets, I like it much better and so does my car and transmission.' - Gil Morales, '00 GTP

'Already had the stock PCM out by the time the ups man came and hook her right up and holy **** it pulled hard right out of the bat half boosting at like 20 mph. Then i floored it and the shift at 6200 is just wicked. They said INTENSE PCM's dont shift as hard as the DHP but it shifted hard enough for me. I finally got to test out 2nd gear and i just kept pulling and pulling,top end is so much better. I love it! Really woke up car. Shift points are great. Better than DHP!! 169 bux well spent, great product INTENSE.' - Lewis Rivera, '00 GTP

'It's better than DHP!' - Benjamin Cook, '98 GTP

'Torque management and burst knock tuning is awesome! Part throttle KR is gone, I like the shifting behaviour that I see so far and this is only with around 20 minutes worth of driving and no case learn yet. I am 165% happy with the PCM so far, it smokes the tuning that my local DHP rep has done for me so far. Intense Racing = da shiet' - John Rehman, '98 GTP

'Wow what a huge difference! The factory should have done it this way in the first place. This Buick is not my father's Buick now. I am glad I waited for this, and did not buy DHP. Money well spent, I would buy another one.' - Randy Gilmore, '98 GS

And here's a link to comments and feedback from another hundred satisfied INTENSE PCM customers:

http://www.intense-racing.com/testimonial.html
 

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There are many people out there running INTENSE PCM's and they have no problems with them what so ever. I have talked with many people about what they think of theirs personally and have gotten all positive feedback. I am doing this, as I am in the market for a new PCM since I am getting rid of the DHP. You do not have to just take my word on it...

See: http://www.intense-racing.com/testimonial.html#PCM

What you might be hearing could be the '04's that are running too small of a pulley for stock injectors.

See: http://www.3800pro.com/forum/showthread.php?t=619

In that case, it is not the PCM, it is other issues that people are assuming to be PCM related because the INTENSE was the only one to offer PCM's for 04's! I hope that this helps!
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
"Every 2004 GTP/CompG that has broken pistons to date has had an INTENSE PCM installed, because that has been the only real option."

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"...They addressed the problems I had with the other vendors pcms.' - Ryan Cayton, '04 GTP"

I thought you were the only real option for 04?

Anyways you guys should really include a disclaimer for the 04's if so many of them are blowing up after installing your pcm...whether it is the pcm's fault or not, the pcm is related. I'm glad though that you cleared this issue up though, i'll probably stick to getting the Intense Stage 1, thanks Scott :)

-Firoze
 

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Ryan was beta testing the 04 DHP IIRC. ;)

Also, if you noticed, he said that 04s are maxing out their fuel systems with JUST a 3.4 pulley. Sure, the PCM commands more fuel, but it is a problem way before the PCM is even upgraded.
 

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I thought you were the only real option for 04?
There were two other companies with 2004 Grand Prix PCM's at the beginning of this year. I believe the one is no longer on the market, and the other has since stated that their unit was a beta. Sorry for any confusion on this.

Anyways you guys should really include a disclaimer for the 04's if so many of them are blowing up after installing your pcm...whether it is the pcm's fault or not, the pcm is related
You're absolutely right! Here's a thread where we explained how the injectors are maxed on 2004 GTP/CompG cars with only a 3.40" supercharger pulley, and we stressed how important it is to switch to larger fuel injectors:

http://www.3800pro.com/forum/showthread.php?t=619

Here are the injector clips we carry that permit 2004 Grand Prix owners to convert over to the earlier styler injectors:

http://www.intense-racing.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?

And here are a couple of threads where we explained how critical it is to tune these cars using a wideband O2 sensor:

http://www.3800pro.com/forum/showthread.php?t=848

http://www.3800pro.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1046&page=1
 

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So what about the 04 PCM adding additional timing (on top of the 3* the PCM adds) based on A/F ratio? You add more fuel it bumps up the timing, yes it runs richer and it adds timing. I have seen 22* timing WOT when running torco on a stock PCM! Potentially you could be adding more timing than you think..add richer condition, colder weather and folks could see upwards of 25*...

Also, the 04s have smaller injectors but higher fuel pressure..they do nearly max out with a 3.4/CAI/Exhaust but I don't think anyone with a stock PCM has blown up....(knock on wood).
 

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So what about the 04 PCM adding additional timing (on top of the 3* the PCM adds) based on A/F ratio? You add more fuel it bumps up the timing, yes it runs richer and it adds timing. I have seen 22* timing WOT when running torco on a stock PCM! Potentially you could be adding more timing than you think..add richer condition, colder weather and folks could see upwards of 25*...
We only add up to three degrees of timing in our Standard PCM's. If you've seen 22 degrees on a stock PCM, you can expect up to 25 degrees from ours under the same circumstances.

Also, the 04s have smaller injectors but higher fuel pressure..
That's not completely correct. The L32 engines have higher STATIC fuel pressure, but above ~ 6 pounds of boost, they have LOWER fuel pressure than L67 engines. You can find a more detailed explanation in this thread:

http://www.3800pro.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1047
 

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Scott,

I am still a little confused on this whole tuning/pcm/injector stuff. If our injectors are infact maxed out at 3.4" pulley, why were my dyno runs showing way rich and falling off the chart at around 3900 RPMs. Shouln't I be getting leaner as I approach a max state on my injectors? On both my stock motor, and the new stage 3 setup, the both fall off the chart.
 

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Robert - I believe Chris left you a message a week or so ago with an offer to dyno tune your car and help resolve whatever issue you may be having. If you haven't gotten back to him yet, please take a minute and send me an email at [email protected].
 

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Mr. INTENSE said:
We only add up to three degrees of timing in our Standard PCM's. If you've seen 22 degrees on a stock PCM, you can expect up to 25 degrees from ours under the same circumstances.
Correct, but if you added fuel, richened up the mixture you are likely to add more timing incidentally. Based on other data I have seen, running richer increases timing. If you added fuel, you added timing in addition to the 3* across the band. Add in cold air for a even richer mixture and I think you have the potential to see too much timing...that the KR system cannot pull fast enough.


Mr. INTENSE said:
That's not completely correct. The L32 engines have higher STATIC fuel pressure, but above ~ 6 pounds of boost, they have LOWER fuel pressure than L67 engines. You can find a more detailed explanation in this thread:

http://www.3800tech.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1047
Right, because we are not boost indexed...the PCM compensates by lengthening IPW. Its not purely an injector problem, though swapping injectors is easier than messing with an AFPR (IMHO).

However with an aftermarket PCM, commanding more fuel and timing, and with the rev limit higher--the fueling problem becomes worse. I am static with 3.4 and Stock...if I added fuel via the PCM and reved to 6000 (or higher)..you are just asking for trouble. I think this is pretty well understood now.

Perhaps cars with other PCMs with more fuel and higher rev limits *might* exhibit the same problems...

I guess it seems there *may* be a correlation and there are several Intense customers asking for help (at least on clubgp.com) with this. It makes some of us wonder why you (Scott, Intense) haven't responded there? (Vendor clashing aside--there are people there who would like to see some response)
 

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I guess it seems there *may* be a correlation and there are several Intense customers asking for help (at least on clubgp.com) with this. It makes some of us wonder why you (Scott, Intense) haven't responded there? (Vendor clashing aside--there are people there who would like to see some response)
Our sponsorship of that forum has expired and we are no longer permitted to post there as a non-sponsor. I haven't even logged onto that forum since November 17th, which was the day I received notification our sponsorship had expired.

Any of our customers who have specific issues or questions, or need tuning assistance of any kind can email us. In nearly all cases, we respond to email inquiries within a few business hours.
 

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sorry to take this further off topic but why would INTENSE drop sponsoring the other main Grand Prix site?
I'm thinking from my business background and that board is exactly your target market, which otherwise is very difficult to acess due to the limited product breadth that your company sells. It just doesn't make sense from a business standpoint (at least not mine) to stop with the advertising on it.

your thoughts?

jas
 

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Mr. INTENSE said:
We may be in a position to renew that sponsorship at some point in the future, but we've spent a lot of money in other areas over the last few weeks.

Look for some MAJOR announcements from us this week...
works for me, i was just curious.
 

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What about the problems with the Intense PCM and a 3.4 pulley?

This is what I was running and chipped 2 pistons.

The outside air temp was 22*F and my plugs were black from running RICH.

Can you verify whether or not it is true that these cars add additional timing when running rich?
 

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Mr. INTENSE said:
Any of our customers who have specific issues or questions, or need tuning assistance of any kind can email us. In nearly all cases, we respond to email inquiries within a few business hours.
If you had a problem with an product, no matter whoes it was, why would you post it on a forum? Anytime that I had an issue with something from the few vedors that I have dealt with, I contacted them and they all corrected my issue. I give the company the oppurtunity to correct the issue(s), not post it on a forum!! Most vendors out there will take care of issues, they are in business to take care of the consumer, if not, they will not be in business long. :D

Please contact the vendor directly if you have any issues with any product! ;)


Mr. INTENSE said:
Look for some MAJOR announcements from us this week...
FOR SURE!! :D :rolleyes: :eek:
 

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I broke my piston when I put the 3.0 pulley on with the stock injectors.

Won't happen again. I have run the Stage1.5 pcm with 4* timing for months now with 19* timing and 0KR when warmed up. I only got high timing on the stock pcm if I floored it when it was cold.
 
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