3800Pro Forums banner
1 - 20 of 28 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
347 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I'm about ready to take my block to the machine shop for the basic stuff (hot tank, magnaflux, bore cleanup, new core/oil plugs, deburr & paint,) and they also offer a few other options (that I thought might be useful) being deck block square to mains $100 and align hone the block $150. I've heard that decking the block just enough to clean it up for mating to the heads, and also making it square is worth it, however I've heard some opinions that the align hone isn't worth it unless it'll be some all out racer, and I like being able to use stock sized bearings (I'm assuming since the main holes are bored out you'd need an oversized bearing).

What are the opinions on the decking the block and align honing? Any input would be appreciated.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
174 Posts
bumpin96monte! said:
I'm about ready to take my block to the machine shop for the basic stuff (hot tank, magnaflux, bore cleanup, new core/oil plugs, deburr & paint,) and they also offer a few other options (that I thought might be useful) being deck block square to mains $100 and align hone the block $150. I've heard that decking the block just enough to clean it up for mating to the heads, and also making it square is worth it, however I've heard some opinions that the align hone isn't worth it unless it'll be some all out racer, and I like being able to use stock sized bearings (I'm assuming since the main holes are bored out you'd need an oversized bearing).

What are the opinions on the decking the block and align honing? Any input would be appreciated.

decking the block might not be needed, gotta look into the shape etc etc of the block. A line hone wil still use stock sized bearings, all they do is shave one thousands of an inch off the caps, which makes them out of round, or not a perfect cirlcle, then take the line hone tool and make it into a perfect circle again.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
347 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
So do you reccomend the honing all the time then, and if so, by taking material off the bottom of the caps (when looking @ the engine upside down) won't this make the cross bolts not line up well or will there not be enough milled off the caps to matter?

Also with decking, I thought part of the benefit was to "clean up" the deck surface for a better seal to the new head gasket, is this true at all or does the benefit lie solely in the squareness to the mains?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
174 Posts
bumpin96monte! said:
So do you reccomend the honing all the time then, and if so, by taking material off the bottom of the caps (when looking @ the engine upside down) won't this make the cross bolts not line up well or will there not be enough milled off the caps to matter?

Also with decking, I thought part of the benefit was to "clean up" the deck surface for a better seal to the new head gasket, is this true at all or does the benefit lie solely in the squareness to the mains?

For the main caps, I wouldnt think that that small would matter on the side bolts, I know ive been able to just barely lift them while still bolted from the side, the decking, I dunno, im still kinda new to this, learned a lot from my latest rebuild
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
347 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Looking at Intense's raceblock, I see they say a "competition hone job ... using a custom fabricated align bore hone plate", are they talking about the actual honing of the cylinders then, and if so, do they perform an align hone on the mains?

Also, I've been talking to a few people at the machine shop, and they said they reccomend that I do get the surface decked not only to clean it up, but also because the MLS head gaskets reccomend a 80 RA surface finish. So, I believe my current list to get done will be as follows:

Hot Tank, Magnafluxed, CK-10 hone (they said anything less than .030, they reccomend honing instead of the boring machine), Deck block square to mains, Deburr & Paint, New freeze & oil plugs. Does this sound like a pretty good list?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
48 Posts
How much is getting the block tanked, magnafluxed, new core and oil plugs installed, and honing going to cost you? I've got a block I want to get cleaned up, but haven't been able to find, or had time to look for, a reputable machine shop around. Just wondering what I could expect to pay for that.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
441 Posts
It almost sounds like you’re going a little over kill… I’m not sure what condition your block is in though.
If you need the shop work though, it is well worth it to do it right.

When I checked mine though everything was within spec at 64k miles. I plastigaged all the stock main bearings and cross measured the bores and found the deck to be flat.

I had near zero ring-end wear edge and opted to do the hone job myself , it came out nice and uniform with a hone I bought on the McMaster Carr web site.

Although hot tanking along with new freeze plugs would have been nice, I opted to degrease and clean the block myself as well. After de-greasing, you’ll need a large tub and lot of hot soapy water to keep it submerged or constantly wet (iron will rust in an instant)… and a large source of compressed air and towels along with plenty of WD-40 to dry and pickle the block the instant it comes out of the tub.

As for the paint, mine looked like a new block when I was done.

I installed new main bearings and plastigaged once again, it came out perfect.

Unless you’ve got egg shaped bores, strange crankshaft wear, or leaky head gaskets, I’d tend to shy away from machining the block. Could be money better spent elsewhere.

Just my 2 cents.

You can see pics if you care to, on my MOD List link.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
347 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
99GT2dr, I've got a whole price list pamplet, but for the things you said here is the cost as advertised:
hot tank $60, magnaflux ($24 IIRC, misprinted in the price list), painting + deburring $65, freeze plugs are $2 each, and the ck10 hone is $12 / cylinder. Decking is another thing I was considering if its needed, and thats $100, and align honing the main journals is $150.

MikeGS, your block really does look pretty good. Actually I have the exact same big plastic container you used to catch drips under my motor on the stand. My block has 72,000 miles on it and isn't terribly dirty, but the coolant jackets are pretty crappy inside, and there is some hardened gunk on the block. I also don't have an aircompressor I could use w/o transporting the engine elsewhere b/c I live in an apartment. The other thing I really wanted to do is magnaflux the block and I don't think you can do this without hot tanking it first to remove the paint, etc. And if I hot tank it, it'll need new paint anyway, so its kinda a all or nothing deal it seems.

I'm kinda afraid to do the honing myself to brake the glaze, but what type of hone did you use? Was it one of the ball ones used w/ a drill?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
441 Posts
bumpin96monte! said:
...My block has 72,000 miles on it and isn't terribly dirty, but the coolant jackets are pretty crappy inside, and there is some hardened gunk on the block. I also don't have an aircompressor I could use w/o transporting the engine elsewhere b/c I live in an apartment.

I'm kinda afraid to do the honing myself to brake the glaze, but what type of hone did you use? Was it one of the ball ones used w/ a drill?
I know what its like, I live in a town house (no garage) That will be changing in 2 weeks though :) ... I did the work at my buddys place.
I use synthetic oil and have changed the dexcool, so the block was pretty clean to start with...
Yep, I used a ball/brush type hone with a drill... It was a piece of cake.
This isn't something I do everyday either, but a mechanic buddy of mine who used to build drag racing engines stopped by after the work was done an liked how it turned out as well.
After all the work was done, honing was by far one of the easy tasks.

If you're going to have the work done to the block, let them hone it. Thats what I did last time I rebuilt an engine and installed larger diameter pistons.

good luck on the project.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
347 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
There is also something most shops offer called "O-ring the block" which means they machine a circle around each cylinder that a copper ring sits in, then when you run a copper head gasket, the head gasket and oring fuse together to help prevent destruction of the gasket due to extreme conditions such as ultra high boost or high compression N/A etc. I'm not sure if its possible on our blocks as it seems they would have to overlap, and i'm not even sure if you could buy a copper head gasket for our engine, but maybe someone else can fill in the rest.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
713 Posts
Yep I have heard of it being done to our engines.
But not sure if it's done to the block or the heads ?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
713 Posts
dwilz said:
when my motor was rebuilt heads & block have been o ringed
Ok so when this is done do the two grooves ( the one in the block and the one in the head ) have the same diameter or are they different so they are not on top of each other ? If you get what I mean.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
91 Posts
OZ38 said:
Ok so when this is done do the two grooves ( the one in the block and the one in the head ) have the same diameter or are they different so they are not on top of each other ? If you get what I mean.
yeh i know what your saying and yes they are inline with each other
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
713 Posts
Yeah if you could find out, as someone once told me they were made from something like piano wire. Also would they be continueous full circle or have a join. I wouldn't think they would have an end gap. (some where for leakage).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
91 Posts
OZ38 said:
Yeah if you could find out, as someone once told me they were made from something like piano wire. Also would they be continueous full circle or have a join. I wouldn't think they would have an end gap. (some where for leakage).
just found out they are made of chrome molly
 
1 - 20 of 28 Posts
Top