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Looking at Intense's race block, I see they drill the lifter valley in 10 extra places across the valley (between the two existing holes, one on each end) for oil return holes. I was wondering if this is a reccomended practice to have done to my block also. From reading a couple books on engine rebuilding and engine blueprinting, it seems that the general idea with the return holes is to plug all the center ones on a V8 (leaving only one open on each end). The reason they give is that the oil dripping back down will end up landing on a part of the rotating assembly yielding a "windage loss" from the crank, etc hitting the falling oil droplets. I've even seen Summit and others sell kits made specifically to plug all the center holes on these V8s. My question is, in our 3800s, is the oil system poor enough in our motors that the small windage loss is overcome by having a better oiling system for the crank, or what is the deal. I'm just a little confused here on this topic :confused:
 

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From reading a couple books on engine rebuilding and engine blueprinting, it seems that the general idea with the return holes is to plug all the center ones on a V8 (leaving only one open on each end). The reason they give is that the oil dripping back down will end up landing on a part of the rotating assembly yielding a "windage loss" from the crank, etc hitting the falling oil droplets.
This is not an issue on our engines since we have windage trays from the factory.
 

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Mr. INTENSE said:
This is not an issue on our engines since we have windage trays from the factory.
The windage try keeps the oil in the pan from blowing away from the oil pump pickup at high rpm, but he is asking about oil driping down onto the spinning cam, connecting rods, and crank.

Greg
 

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AKA the factory oil pan gasket correct?
On the W-bodies, yes. The H-bodies use a completely different (aluminum) oil pan, with a separate (steel) windage tray.

The windage try keeps the oil in the pan from blowing away from the oil pump pickup at high rpm, but he is asking about oil driping down onto the spinning cam, connecting rods, and crank.
The windage tray also keeps oil from running over the spinning crankshaft and connecting rods.
 

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Mr. INTENSE said:
On the W-bodies, yes. The H-bodies use a completely different (aluminum) oil pan, with a separate (steel) windage tray.



The windage tray also keeps oil from running over the spinning crankshaft and connecting rods.

can these be used on the w bodies? or because of the oil pan gasket its a no, or can you modify the gasket and remove the plastic tray and make room for the H bodies?
 

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Doug off the top of my head I think you need a different oil pickup. I have seen them both but I cannot remember call Ed he'll know for sure.
 

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bumpin96monte! said:
Looking at Intense's race block, I see they drill the lifter valley in 10 extra places across the valley (between the two existing holes, one on each end) for oil return holes. I was wondering if this is a reccomended practice to have done to my block also. From reading a couple books on engine rebuilding and engine blueprinting, it seems that the general idea with the return holes is to plug all the center ones on a V8 (leaving only one open on each end). The reason they give is that the oil dripping back down will end up landing on a part of the rotating assembly yielding a "windage loss" from the crank, etc hitting the falling oil droplets. I've even seen Summit and others sell kits made specifically to plug all the center holes on these V8s. My question is, in our 3800s, is the oil system poor enough in our motors that the small windage loss is overcome by having a better oiling system for the crank, or what is the deal. I'm just a little confused here on this topic :confused:

Does anyone have more detail on this modification of drilling the valley area, example - drill hole sizes and positions and maybe a diagram or picture.

Also a previous answer still confuses me.
A windage tray will stop splash from below the crankshaft. But the question above is referring to dripping oil from above in the valley. Will this be a problem ? :confused:
 

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In MY opinion's on the drilling additional holes in the lifter valley:

1.) Other engine builders who have done this, example high performance mustang guys sad to say...the engine blocks have actually cracked down the middle of these "added holes". Basically, the block will split in half. :eek: Because of the power the engines created. The holes were found to make the block weeker.

2.) The additional holes will cause more additional oil to drip on to the rotating assembly ... in turn cause restance ... in turn loss of some horse power. The two holes on either end in the lifter valley I believe will allow enough oil to retreat to the bottom of the engine again.

-Additional help is oil restrictive push rods. I learned a lot about what these do really, you all can correct me if I'm wrong here:

*These push rods will allow oil through them, but because of the smaller hole, it is restricted - hints the name.

*These push rods will help the lifter stay more lubbed with oil because the push rod it not allowing al that much oil through it.

*These push rods are a great much needed upgrade for the full roller rockers. These new rockers only require a "splash" of oil to stay lubbed. They also help the oil from building up in your heads and not returning to the oil pan so it can be picked up and pumped else where. This will also help those with leaky valve cover gaskets, because the oil wont be sitting in behind the covers at high RPM's, but if your in there installing these items...you would be installing new gaskets anyway.

*The light weight push rods, and stock rods soak the stock or moddified rockers in oil which brings me to my next point.

*Using oil restricted push rods with stock or moddified stamped steel rockers = bad idea. Reasion being, you are still using the stock rockers (in a sence) with the stock pedistal's. These rockers need oil to keep the pivots lubbed, you take the oil flow away...or restrict it you will cause harmful wear to the rockers and pedistals. They need oil to survive.

Now, these are just opinions....and I welcome the Pro's or others to tell me different or to add to these comments. Lets all learn together~!

~Farnsworth~
 

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A reply to the above:

1= No one that has done this has ran into a problem, Scott Cook has this done to his short blocks in the turbo car and the bonneville and has never had a problem.

2= Our oil pan gasket has a windage tray built into it so the extra oil will be scraped away from the crank, and also the quicker return of oil is pretty essential once you start spinning higher rpm's due to the poor oiling distrubution design of our engines.

3= oil restricted pushrods are fine, it doesn't take away ALL of the oil going to the rocker fulcrum/ pedestal, you would be surprised on how little oil it takes to lube that area.

All of what is done is extra anal super preventative maitenance, does everyone need this? Not really, but once you start spinnning higher rpms alot of this becomes essential for reliability reasons. When you look at it forged/coated slugs also give you a performance loss but in return reduced friction and cumbstion chamber temps will give you a larger head room for more boost, same with the oiling you may loose a few HP but it will allow a higher reving engine that in return yields more HP then what is lost.

Just my opinion.
 

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BIG JEFF said:
Howdy,


The h body oil pan will not fit the w bodies due to engine mount differences

Big jeff
I used a 1998 SSEI engine for my swap in a w-body , I never saw a w-body 3.8 oil pan but the h-body fit no problems, it's the oil filter adaptor that didn't fit due to the engine mounts...

BTW, this 1998 SSEI got the big black plastic oil pan gasket...
 

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On the W-bodies, yes. The H-bodies use a completely different (aluminum) oil pan, with a separate (steel) windage tray.
Has anybody got a pic of the H-bodies separate (steel) windage tray please ?

Mr. INTENSE said:
The windage tray also keeps oil from running over the spinning crankshaft and connecting rods.
I'm a little confused with this Scott. Do you maybe mean - " keeps oil from splashing up over the spinning crankshaft and connecting rods." ?

Cheers

Deek
 

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Aluminum oil pan H-body

Is there a differnt oil pan gasket for the h-body pans? For my sand rail build up I used a Aluminum H-body pan, which has a metal windage tray in it already but the gasket I used also is in itself a windage tay. Have one problem with this gasket, the raise side seals to block but the u shaped groove side doesn't seal against the pan. I removed my pan and silconed the gasket to the pan to seal then put the pan on. I have no grooves in my oil pan rail to seal with this gasket. Is there a differnt gasket for these pans?
 

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Is there a differnt oil pan gasket for the h-body pans? For my sand rail build up I used a Aluminum H-body pan, which has a metal windage tray in it already but the gasket I used also is in itself a windage tay. Have one problem with this gasket, the raise side seals to block but the u shaped groove side doesn't seal against the pan. I removed my pan and silconed the gasket to the pan to seal then put the pan on. I have no grooves in my oil pan rail to seal with this gasket. Is there a differnt gasket for these pans?
Got any pics ?
 

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deek it's worth the additional work to make a better windage tray from the unidirectional screen that moroso sells and would be further helped by a high mounted crank scraper, i updated the oiling thread on the sump passages, interesting finds...
 

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deek it's worth the additional work to make a better windage tray from the unidirectional screen that moroso sells and would be further helped by a high mounted crank scraper, i updated the oiling thread on the sump passages, interesting finds...
Hi James,

I would like to see a pic of these windage trays / screens etc.
Even a pic of what a crank scraper looks like would help.

Does moroso make one to suit our engines ?

Cheers

Deek
 

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Hi James,

I would like to see a pic of these windage trays / screens etc.
Even a pic of what a crank scraper looks like would help.

Does moroso make one to suit our engines ?

Cheers

Deek
sure, and no but they can... i talked with someone at moroso a while ago about pans for 3800's but the $ is leading me to modify a OE steel pan with baffles, windage screen with a crank scraper... not to mention i'll be looking at a custom 3/4" tube pickup anyway...

here http://www.moroso.com/catalog/categorydisplay.asp?catcode=13100
 
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