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I have seen a couple people using this and I was curious what exactly it is? And what does it do for a car. And where can I get it? Thanks for the info.
 

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In short it is the poors mans IC.

Alky injection will lower blower temps and output temps, it will lower cylinder temps, and lower EGT temps.

It will also raise your octean.

I have also heard it will let you make more boost with the same pulley because the alky will seal the vains of the blower.

It works by injecting a fine mist of methonal and water in the intake tract under boost.

www.alkycontrol.com has a very good progressive kit.
 

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ALKY injection is a great way to lower intake temps and prep your car to make more power.. HOWEVER.. it is not somthing you can bolt on and expect to work. It takes ALOT of testing and tuning to get it running right. There are MANY DIY and MANY aftermarket kits, none of wich will simply bolt up the your car to work as advertised. You will definately need some sort of scanner.

BUT, dont be mislead by some others on the board claiming alky is usesless:
Recent Dyno testing has shown that while alcohol/water injection may eliminate KR it seems to produce less HP then without it. My theory is that the water/alcohol is displacing the fuel providing less power and the reason KR drops is because their isnt as much volatile gas in the cylinder to be touched off by hotspots.
Alky injection has helped me to go from a 3.4 pulley on the street with 1-2 KR to a 3.1 as well as 3-4 degeees more timming with NO KR.. and testing on a 3.0 to be determined. :D

The guys over at buicktirbo.com swear by it. As for the above comment from a different thread, the person doing the dyno testing must have not known what they were doing or possibly not gotten the tuning quite down. Also, as for alky displacing fuel, not possible. The injectors are going to spray "x" amount of fuel no matter what. Denatured alcohol (that I use), is aprox 104 octane anyway. It actually lowered my injectors IPW because it made me run more rich and the O2 sensor saw that, and started cutting back fuel. (O2's remained 920-940 with lower IPW's)



Here is some reading for anyone who wants to know more: ;) :eek: :rolleyes:
http://home.att.net/~stevemon/AlcoholInjMod.html
http://www.turbomirage.com/water.html
http://www.sasked.gov.sk.ca/docs/physics/u4b2phy.html
http://members.ozemail.com.au/~petermca/products/diy_water/index.html
http://www.geocities.com/rad87gn/tech/alcohol.html
http://www.geocities.com/rad87gn/tech/SteveCkit.html
http://www.markphillips.net/wi.html
http://home.ccci.org/Key_Information/2ndWaterInjection.htm
http://autospeed.com/A_0115/P_1/article.html
http://www.ipass.net/~jdennis/images/h2o/
http://www.rallycars.com/Cars/WaterInjection.html
http://better-mileage.com/water1.html
http://www.510again.com/articles/watering/watering.html
http://www.noswizard.co.uk/water.htm
http://www.se-r.net/about/200sx/scc/feb99/water_injection.html
http://member.newsguy.com/~gtfour/skeptics.html
http://www.dawesdevices.com/howto.html
http://www.dune-buggy.com/turbo/methanol.htm
http://www.dawesdevices.com/water.html
http://membersites.namezero.com/jogauthi.nmu.edu/gi/wi.htm
http://members.aol.com/raydorman/
 

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This is a very controversial topic. Some people will swear it doesn't work, and others will swear it does. Some people claim they've had great results, and others are positive it's a worthless mod.

One of our customers recently became convinced that alcohol injection was the hot ticket. He installed a race methanol injection system on his car and started tuning. After a couple weeks he was running with a much smaller pulley and zero KR. He was POSITIVE that he was getting serious gains from his kit...until we dynoed his car. We dynoed the car and found out that even though his factory O2 sensor still read the same as before, his car was now running 9:1 air/fuel and made far less power than he did before.

I'm not saying it's worthless. I'm saying that I've tried it on my own cars and had no success, and some of our customers have tried it and had negative results. As good as I think this new message forum is, we're just not going to be able to agree on this topic.
 

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Being that the car is running at such a rich state, couldn't he back out the fuel injected in the car enough to even normally? Or maybe inject less alky to only richen a little?

Also, how much power was lost from using alky vs no alky?

Just curious questions since I was thinking myself to use it but don't want to waste money if it is indeed worthless.
 

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I tried alky injection and thought it was working but in all actuality it was running the car so rich that it couldn't produce kr. I could run whatever pulley I wanted and still no kr. Whether I had it setup wrong or not tuned in right IDK? I'm the 1 Scott was refereing too in case your wondering. I dyno'd the same with alky and a 2.7 pulley as I did with 93 octane and a 3.0 Now like I said, it could've been tuning or whatever but didn't work for me. I know of people that have had success with it, just not me, lol
 

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Im curious to get myself to the track and try testing my SMC kit. It definately helps to lower KR. I was getting 5 KR with a 3.4.. with the alky I could run a 3.25 with 1-2KR under the same conditions.

Hopefully I can get some positive track results soon. :)
 

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It works just fine on my car, You were probably using to high of a concentration of Methonol/H20 I run the walmart -30 washer fluid and the car rips. Since the track has closed I can only use my G-Tech to give me my times. It's has been about 1 tenth off and 3mph over the tracks timing system since I've had it.

I busted out a 12.81 and a 12.78 on street tires about a week ago. I use to run 13.20's and 13.10's on street tires before on my old propane injection set up.

So it works just fine for me, I've been kicking the crap out of the local Vetts and F-bodies and I love it. It's the best mod I've ever done. It's just a matter of tunning. I'm thinking about about adding a small nozzle in the intake manifold for further cooling so I can drop down to my 2.7 pulley for the streets.
 

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Turbo Regal, Buick, Sy / Ty, Porsche 944 T, Supra owners rely on WI and MTH to control detonation in high boost applications...nothing new...

You run the risk of relying on your hoemade chemistry kit to not fail, and provide a predictible layer of protection...

When you add water or meth to a mixture made up of gas and air, you have to be displacing something!! 9:1 A/F..come on now, no one though to lean it out to maby you know, 12.5? Why give up so soon?

Now the real question is:
is it SAFE on the eatons?

I've heard from alot of reliable and experianced people that W.I. and WET nitrous shots are NOT safe.

The strange thing is, a DRY shot can be used on 03s with no side effects....other than pure speed...yet they share our same blower, and possibly, an IC...
 

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nate said:
Turbo Regal, Buick, Sy / Ty, Porsche 944 T, Supra owners rely on WI and MTH to control detonation in high boost applications...nothing new...

You run the risk of relying on your hoemade chemistry kit to not fail, and provide a predictible layer of protection...

When you add water or meth to a mixture made up of gas and air, you have to be displacing something!! 9:1 A/F..come on now, no one though to lean it out to maby you know, 12.5? Why give up so soon?

Now the real question is:
is it SAFE on the eatons?

I've heard from alot of reliable and experianced people that W.I. and WET nitrous shots are NOT safe.

The strange thing is, a DRY shot can be used on 03s with no side effects....other than pure speed...yet they share our same blower, and possibly, an IC...

You can tell Rafler runing 12.2's with no IC and and water injection with a gen 5 blower how unsafe his set up is. Wet nitrous not safe???? who says this.

Try runing a 125 dry shot in a GTP and see what happens (BOOM). I have used a wet nitrous set up for 2 years. Look up the ZEX dry to wet conversion on clubgp. That's my little ideal, you pick up almost 25 hp to the wheels just by adding the fuel side to the zex dry kit. I went from 12.8's to 12.50 with the same size shot. And that's when I was running 13.3's on the motor.

Without a true wideband you A/F ratios on alky are going to be goofy mine read -8, and the 02's are 920, now how is that pig rich? As far as a wet nitrous set up it the safest and best way to run it.

I wouldn't exactly call alky injection a homemade chemisty set up, it's been around since WWII and works perfect if you get the proper parts.

What if you IC pump fails at the track (none are as good as a shurflo pump) Your F*cked :eek: especialy if you bumped up your timing and didn't add race gas. A shurflo pump can pump out 100% methonol without failing and will last for years. How many IC pumps have failed on people? Many within only a few months of owning them. (A Freaking lot of them) So you can see you run a risk with either system.

I've had a ton of success with nitrous and alky, my rotors look like chrome but it hasn't effected my perfomance at all. The vapor action of the alky/ water injections creats a steam seal at the rotors anyway.
 

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dvldoc said:
You can tell Rafler runing 12.2's with no IC and and water injection with a gen 5 blower how unsafe his set up is. Wet nitrous not safe???? who says this.

Try runing a 125 dry shot in a GTP and see what happens (BOOM). I have used a wet nitrous set up for 2 years. Look up the ZEX dry to wet conversion on clubgp. That's my little ideal, you pick up almost 25 hp to the wheels just by adding the fuel side to the zex dry kit. I went from 12.8's to 12.50 with the same size shot. And that's when I was running 13.3's on the motor.

Without a true wideband you A/F ratios on alky are going to be goofy mine read -8, and the 02's are 920, now how is that pig rich? As far as a wet nitrous set up it the safest and best way to run it.

I wouldn't exactly call alky injection a homemade chemisty set up, it's been around since WWII and works perfect if you get the proper parts.

What if you IC pump fails at the track (none are as good as a shurflo pump) Your F*cked :eek: especialy if you bumped up your timing and didn't add race gas. A shurflo pump can pump out 100% methonol without failing and will last for years. How many IC pumps have failed on people? Many within only a few months of owning them. (A Freaking lot of them) So you can see you run a risk with either system.

I've had a ton of success with nitrous and alky, my rotors look like chrome but it hasn't effected my perfomance at all. The vapor action of the alky/ water injections creats a steam seal at the rotors anyway.
I was referring to Safe as ( Safe on the blower ), I was trying to speak about the blower. I agree 100% that wet is always a better way to go with nitrous.

I have nothing against alch / nitrous injection; in fact it was on my things to do before my IC. It really is a great concept, again, what will it do to the thing that goes "whirrrrrrrrrrrr"

I don't know what pumps your referring to, but my Flowjet works just fine, rain, snow, shine.

You still cannot deny that water injection / alch is a layer of safety. You run out...that’s all she wrote. It may be good idea in theory, but I like to drive..and boost...alot, that tank wouldn't be full after me driving, trust me.
I like something I can't run out of, and it doesn’t cost 3.99 / lb to fill up...

Like I said, Alch / Water / Nitrous / HCL are all great, they produce a drop in temp like nothing else would, I know many people that use them, but for our L67 and L32 long term health, what are the real effects? What are the real dangers (long term)?

Please understand, I'm not promoting one thing over the other, I just want to know what the effects will be on the car, say, a year from now. :)
 

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Everything I've read says H20 injection works. It's worked on WWII airplanes and worked on 1987 GNs and Turbo T's. The one thing that stands out in my mind is the people that knock H20 are the same ones that want to sell ICs. Lets face it folks, there's more $$$ to be made selling ICs than cheap/easy to use H20 injection kits.
 

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sr71rgl said:
Everything I've read says H20 injection works. It's worked on WWII airplanes and worked on 1987 GNs and Turbo T's. The one thing that stands out in my mind is the people that knock H20 are the same ones that want to sell ICs. Lets face it folks, there's more $$$ to be made selling ICs than cheap/easy to use H20 injection kits.
Your missing the biggest point of this discussion!

Most cars that use any type injection are TURBO!!!

They don't hav to worry about their rotors! :eek:
 

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I don't know why every one sweats there rotors so much, long as you don't use 100 methonol or denatured alky you'll have no worries. My rotors look like chrome from nitrous and I have no ill effects beside the steam from the alky seal the rotors further increasing your boost slightly. I gained a half pound of boost over using torco.

As far as long term effects on you motor heres what alky will do for you.
Alcohol does not cause any problems to your engine. It actually "steam" cleans the inside of your throttle body, intake, heads, valves, and exhaust! I know some list members that have taken their engines apart after using alcohol injection for a long time. Everything is very clean and no damage to any engine parts. No problems with washing the cylinders out. The alcohol is sprayed with a fine mist into the intake stream so it is actually vapors when it goes into the engine. Alcohol injection doesn't do the same things as NOS does. None of the same dangers. It is acting as an intercooler enhancer and octane booster. It can lower the cylinder temps by 200 degrees and makes 94 octane basically look like 110 octane.

So you now have a cleaner motor, less wear form detonation, you motor has been running cooler even less wear and tear. The only problem with alky is you will increase your horse power levels and that will cause the extra wear.

As far as cost it cost about $1.25 for a gallon of winter washer fluid which is all you need on a GTP because we do not see severe levels of boost like a GN does. And as far as alky only for turbo's you need to look at some 03 cobra results and votech powed LS1 results on alky. It acts the same on any forced induction car because it's doing the same thing on both.

Hey if I had a grand to spend on a IC I would have, but since this works just as well I can't justify the cost. As many of us folks can't, Hey if you have the cash get a IC they look cool and they work. But so does alky injection for 1/10th the price. It's all about personal choice, ZZP, Intense, and Thrasher all make quality IC's I just can't spend that kind of cash on one mod.
 

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Alky injection

What is the coating on the rotors used for? Is it to seal against the wall of the S/C or is it to provide lubrication for the rotors?

If your rotors look like chrome after a couple 1000 miles of use what happens when you no longer use the Alky injection?

I am looking at this as a possible solution for my problems. But with the Gen V blower the coating is different and a 2nd set of rotors will be harder to come by.
 

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dvldoc said:
It works just fine on my car, You were probably using to high of a concentration of Methonol/H20 I run the walmart -30 washer fluid and the car rips. Since the track has closed I can only use my G-Tech to give me my times. It's has been about 1 tenth off and 3mph over the tracks timing system since I've had it.

I busted out a 12.81 and a 12.78 on street tires about a week ago. I use to run 13.20's and 13.10's on street tires before on my old propane injection set up.

So it works just fine for me, I've been kicking the crap out of the local Vetts and F-bodies and I love it. It's the best mod I've ever done. It's just a matter of tunning. I'm thinking about about adding a small nozzle in the intake manifold for further cooling so I can drop down to my 2.7 pulley for the streets.
Can you post pictures of your install?
 

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Unfortunatly my set up is pretty much out of sight, I use the stock washer bottle and all the lines are run uner the car. The activation solenoid and pump are pretty much out of sight to. The pump is mounted right behind the drivers side headlight. And my nozzles are tapped in the throttle body and all the lines are covered now. Here's a pic of my nozzle placement using a 98 TB ported out with the post removed and the MAFF relocated about 12 inches forrward. I have since finished the TB and polished it completly smooth. My RPM window switch is mounted on the front of the fuse box and my adjustible controler is just mounted on the battery. There are alot of good kits out there that you can get for pretty cheap. Just type in water injection on ebay.

 

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can you use petrol injectors

can you inject methanol into your engine using the standard fuel injectors. due to my limited chemistry knolledge methanol or ethanol shouldnt rust or eat away at the injectors. if so you could control the exact amount of methanol into the engine. could you use a fuel pump to pump alchol. you cant pump water as it will rust the injectors. if you wanted to race the car could you just fill the tank up with ethanol and tunr the boost up on your turbo you could get heaps of boost with no pinning
 

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brad_wants_you said:
can you inject methanol into your engine using the standard fuel injectors. due to my limited chemistry knolledge methanol or ethanol shouldnt rust or eat away at the injectors. if so you could control the exact amount of methanol into the engine. could you use a fuel pump to pump alchol. you cant pump water as it will rust the injectors. if you wanted to race the car could you just fill the tank up with ethanol and tunr the boost up on your turbo you could get heaps of boost with no pinning
:eek: :( :rolleyes:
 
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