My personal thoughts on all the latest INTENSE and ZZP Cam talk.

[Dyno Brian]

Hey there!

I have been reading all these posts in regards to INTENSE and ZZP Camshaft information and If I was a customer trying to decide on which camshaft, I would find it very difficult because of all the different opinions on trying to sway a customer on which one is better. So I present to you my thoughts.

First off, When comparing two camshafts with very similar specs. It is going to be impossible to figure out which camshaft is better unless the only testing variable you have is the camshaft itself. Just think about all the variables there are.

1. Condition of motor including Cylinder heads, Shortblock, Valvetrain

2. Fuel System

3. Tuning. We all know how power can take a leap with timing and a lean air/fuel to get a dyno queen dyno number. I can not put enough stress here on how dyno numbers are way overated. What is important is Safety and Repeatability while making good power.

4. Dynos. Dyno numbers can vary for many reasons. Type of Dyno, Correction Factor being used, Smoothing, Exhaust gas contamination in the shop. Always try to use the same type of dyno and the same operator if you want to truely get an apples vs apples comparision.

5. Other things that will have an affect on numbers is the condition of the transaxle, Weight of the wheels. Air Pressure in tires, The amount of flex in the tires.

So now that we realize that there are many variables that are out of control. What are the variables that are in our control. Lets start with the cams itself. Take the specs off a cam you are wanting to purchase and take it to a cam expert. There is no need for them to know who the distributor is. Let the specs speak for themselves. So the only other variable I can think of at this time is the organzation in which you are purchasing a camshaft.

Why these opinions may seem biased because of my employment with INTENSE. I can tell you open and honestly that I can not say anything bad of a competitor because I have not been a customer. What I can do is share with you on my personal opinion. Not an opinion of someone who needs to give false information because of their employer.

INTENSE Strives with every order that is placed to give the best customer service. I have raced to the printer many times to pull an order at 3:30 pm so it can be packed and ready for UPS to pick it up. We have follow ups for our follow ups to ensure the customer is getting everything they need. The list goes on as to why I think INTENSE is one of the best in the business when it comes to taking care of the customer. I was not told nor paid to make this thread. I am just calling it like I see it. I am not bad mouthing the competition. I just think that we sell a good product and take care of the customer with the best of them.

See YA!!!!

[GP_Pimp]

Good start Brian,

There is an overwhelming amount of variables when it comes down to "which cam is better". While a strict "A-B" comparison dyno would be nice, that in and of itself is not a perfect solution either, unless you A-B'd alot of possible configurations in terms of head porting, compression, intercooling, etc etc etc, and of COURSE proper tuning. Then pray one of your A-B dyno configurations hits the intended consumer on what they look at as their ideal setup.

I think a much more probable solution to all of these arguments would be to create a database of peoples dynos and mod lists, and then create a dotted graph of what those dyno numbers actually came out to being.
I think you would see a decent trend in terms of mod level, tuning level, and overall condition of the setup that would most likely end up seeing a "bell curve" in the graphical representation of the data.

That would give the general consumer a very good idea of at what mod level they can expect the performance gains of their camshaft purchase.

Not to mention it would definately be a cheaper proposition than dynoing a few dozen configurations and spending all the bucks doing that

So who wants to start on THAT database of information

[97RIVman]

i love my intense stage 3 blower cam!!!!

http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fu...deoID=13991999

I think some people have certain loyalties here and there, new people to the scene might see and hear this and that, but have a pre-determined preference of distributers. Its always very important to establish a budget and within that budget, double check to ensure that the all the parts that are required have the appropriate clearences and such. Its pretty hard to argue that a combination of statama parts including cam and everything else with a turbo or 2 will not land you some good numbers assuming of course that you spend all the other necessary money.

My combination of stage 3 cam and everything else is unique because i ported and polished my cylinder heads myself with distinct flow design. So what might flow alright with this cam, maybe the xpz is a little better or vice versa, but could be the complete opposite with different cylinder heads. The possibliities are very hard to lock down. I would suggest go with who and what you know!!!

[Dyno Brian]

I agree that brand loyalty has a lot to do with it. That is not a bad thing. Our purchases go beyond the product itself. The reason for this thread comes from some of the replies in all these cam threads. There is nothing wrong in 1 person saying that I am happy with Brand "A" cam while someone else is happy with Brand "B". But when there are claims of a huge difference between identical products, I have to believe that one of the two products is not getting a fair shake. From a Dyno Tune Motorsports stand point, My tuning is not going to change based on two similar pieces of hardware that come from 2 different suppliers. My job is to ensure things are working properly and the motor is safe. In 90% of the tuning I do, I am not worried about a 5 of 10 hp difference between two cars with identical combinations. Now to have a car down 50 to 100 hp will be a concern that goes way beyond the fact the numbers are considerably less. There are times that it means that something is wrong with the car instead of it being a particular part not being able to perform as promised.

So when purchasing a product, always be sure to look at the big picture and not just what one person got on a dyno or what someone runs at the track. Use all of the resources you have and make your purchase not only on performance, but on customer service both before and after the sale.

[Dyno Brian]

Originally Posted by GP_Pimp

Good start Brian,


I think a much more probable solution to all of these arguments would be to create a database of peoples dynos and mod lists, and then create a dotted graph of what those dyno numbers actually came out to being.
I think you would see a decent trend in terms of mod level, tuning level, and overall condition of the setup that would most likely end up seeing a "bell curve" in the graphical representation of the data.

That would give the general consumer a very good idea of at what mod level they can expect the performance gains of their camshaft purchase.

Not to mention it would definately be a cheaper proposition than dynoing a few dozen configurations and spending all the bucks doing that

So who wants to start on THAT database of information

Good Idea. However, the biggest variable here that is going to make it hard to compare apples to apples on a chassis dyno is the torque converter being used. If only we could lock the TCC on these cars the same way as the LSX cars. This would help even out the playing field when comparing a particular product in two different cars. If only all Mass Air Transfer Functions on all cars were dialed in 100% from the factory. We then could look at maf frequency between two different modded cars and measure the actual volume of air coming into the engine through the RPM Range. That alone would play a big role in determining which part is better then the other. Much better then hp results from two different cars.